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Post by gibbo on Feb 23, 2023 14:56:00 GMT 12
On the other side of the coin you’d hope that the RNZAF/MoD were leveraging this point to wrangle better service and any other deals. NHI/Airbus should at the same time also be reminded that we’ll be replacing the Sea Sprites soon and that right now the MH-60 is looking attractive. Or maybe in 2018 RNZAF were told they could get another gearbox but being out of warranty it would cost $xyz... then bean counters looked at that & decided that with crew in short-supply they could save money by leaving one airframe nominally grounded (as I presume they can rotate the gearboxes thru airframes at heavy maintenance!?!) and hey presto, NZ only effectively has a fleet of 7... plausible?  |
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Post by machina on Feb 23, 2023 15:19:30 GMT 12
On the other side of the coin you’d hope that the RNZAF/MoD were leveraging this point to wrangle better service and any other deals. NHI/Airbus should at the same time also be reminded that we’ll be replacing the Sea Sprites soon and that right now the MH-60 is looking attractive. Or maybe in 2018 RNZAF were told they could get another gearbox but being out of warranty it would cost $xyz... then bean counters looked at that & decided that with crew in short-supply they could save money by leaving one airframe nominally grounded (as I presume they can rotate the gearboxes thru airframes at heavy maintenance!?!) and hey presto, NZ only effectively has a fleet of 7... plausible? Sure, but now in 2023 we should be doing two things: - telling the bean counters where to go  - turning around to the supplier and leveraging the hell out of the current situation. |
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Post by gibbo on Feb 23, 2023 17:35:19 GMT 12
Or maybe in 2018 RNZAF were told they could get another gearbox but being out of warranty it would cost $xyz... then bean counters looked at that & decided that with crew in short-supply they could save money by leaving one airframe nominally grounded (as I presume they can rotate the gearboxes thru airframes at heavy maintenance!?!) and hey presto, NZ only effectively has a fleet of 7... plausible? Sure, but now in 2023 we should be doing two things: - telling the bean counters where to go - turning around to the supplier and leveraging the hell out of the current situation. Agreed! Frankly I can't help feeling someone NZ's end has taken their eye off the ball and not started kicking up a bloody good stink, but then I'm just a mere mortal! Whilst I had quietly poo-pooed the idea of getting ex RAN/AA examples I'm now thinking maybe it'd be worth getting 5 or so just for the spares which AIUI would be <a fairly high percentage> in common... high enough to justify the spend. But to be honest with the Govt now having to re-write spending priorities you can kiss goodbye any such investment in the NZDF, other than hopefully some salary improvements. |
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Post by machina on Feb 23, 2023 17:56:31 GMT 12
Sure, but now in 2023 we should be doing two things: - telling the bean counters where to go - turning around to the supplier and leveraging the hell out of the current situation. Agreed! Frankly I can't help feeling someone NZ's end has taken their eye off the ball and not started kicking up a bloody good stink, but then I'm just a mere mortal! Whilst I had quietly poo-pooed the idea of getting ex RAN/AA examples I'm now thinking maybe it'd be worth getting 5 or so just for the spares which AIUI would be <a fairly high percentage> in common... high enough to justify the spend. But to be honest with the Govt now having to re-write spending priorities you can kiss goodbye any such investment in the NZDF, other than hopefully some salary improvements. I think the NZDFs involvement in cyclone relief has been a good reminder to the nation of its worth. Although it’s still highly doubtful that will translate into hard currency etc, unfortunately. |
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Post by Antonio on Feb 23, 2023 18:24:57 GMT 12
So much for AOG
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Post by dutchkiwi on Feb 24, 2023 8:30:43 GMT 12
The 9th airframe purchased (the attrition airframe Dave refers to) was only purchased for the rotable parts. It was never assembled and delivered as a complete aircraft. These were the only rotable parts initially purchased for the fleet. Most will have been used by now. It was apparently cheaper to do it that way than purchase the parts individually as spares. I think they did the same with the A-109. Another good example of penny pinching at the front end of a procurement process that will bite you down the track. The Macchi was the same. We got a simulator instead of the spares and support package needed to sustain the fleet. We couldn't afford both! Ah yes, I almost forgot RNZAF also has a few A.109's flying. Again and same as the mentioned too small fleet of NH.90's... unbelievable they never excercised the option to buy the three extra Agusta's. Could the disaster that struck NZ open the eye's of politicians? Let's hope so . |
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Post by gibbo on Feb 24, 2023 11:36:40 GMT 12
Unfortunately this has by & large been NZ's modus operandi for the last 40 odd years... from central Govt to local Govt to utility companies & a damn sight more business organisation than we'd care to admit! It all comes back to scrimping on investment. Actually IIRC the 3 extra AW109 was never officially tabled as a plan by either party, just publicly mentioned as being considered. |
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Post by snafu on Feb 25, 2023 20:58:07 GMT 12
Got this from another site, it does not provide the link to Senate Estimates. No wonder that are replacing the fleet early
With thanks to ADMMKII at fifth column
"More tidbits from Estimates as I am getting through it.
The cost of buying 40x brand new Blackhawks and running that entire fleet to 2037 (MRH-90 planned end of service) is roughly $2.7 BILLION cheaper than simply running the MRH-90 fleet until 2037…
According to Chief of Army…"
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chis73
Flight Lieutenant
Posts: 87
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Post by chis73 on Feb 26, 2023 10:35:07 GMT 12
Got this from another site, it does not provide the link to Senate Estimates. No wonder that are replacing the fleet early With thanks to ADMMKII at fifth column "More tidbits from Estimates as I am getting through it. The cost of buying 40x brand new Blackhawks and running that entire fleet to 2037 (MRH-90 planned end of service) is roughly $2.7 BILLION cheaper than simply running the MRH-90 fleet until 2037… According to Chief of Army…" That doesn't seem correct - what the general said was the cost of purchasing the Blackhawks and introducing them into service was less (perhaps not AUD 2.7b less, I wonder if there is a comma missing there) than running on the MRH90s until 2037, not for sustaining the Black Hawks through to 2037 as well. Link to transcript of the Senate Estimates ( here), see p. 54-55 of the pdf. The money for the new Black Hawks appears to be coming from the future MRH90 sustainment budget, cancelling any MRH90 updates, plus not continuing with the Special Operations light helicopter project (LAND 2097 Phase 4 - Bell 429 & H145 were contenders for that). The new Black Hawks will take on that role. First 3 Black Hawks to enter service later this year. MRH90s to be retired by end of 2024. It sounds like they are cannabalising their MRH90 fleet to keep the remaining ones flying at the moment. If the MRH90s are gone by 2025, what does that mean for our sustainment? I don't think France has any NH90s in the South Pacific and the next nearest operators are I think Oman & Qatar, with the rest in Europe. I doubt Airbus Australia will be supporting the NH90 for long. |
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Post by dutchkiwi on Feb 27, 2023 1:16:04 GMT 12
Whatever will happen, fact is that RNZAF simply lack of helicopters. Too few NH.90's... and just five poor A.109's.
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Post by falcon124 on Feb 27, 2023 19:36:24 GMT 12
Another factor I've heard of in the Australian MRH-90 fleet issues: incompatibilities between ADF's maintenance management software and Airbus' systems, leading to not knowing how many TTIS hours various components had as they were swapped around airframes. Ooops  |
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Post by Dave Homewood on Feb 27, 2023 20:03:27 GMT 12
Holy shit, that is very poor if true, Grant!
Wouldn't that make the helicopters pretty worthless to a buyer too?
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Post by richard1098 on Feb 27, 2023 22:26:45 GMT 12
Holy shit, that is very poor if true, Grant! Wouldn't that make the helicopters pretty worthless to a buyer too? Those sorts of issues are why software companies make a fortune from business intelligence analytics software. Still, it’s not a complexity you’d ever choose to deal with. |
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Post by dutchkiwi on Mar 2, 2023 5:25:12 GMT 12
Bit off topic, but Belgium purchased it's first replacement for their plagued fleet of NH.90's. Buying 15 H.145M and later add five to eight CH-47F Chinooks. Swedish Navy confirmed a deal to buy MH-60R Seahawks to replace their fleet of NH.90's. Later this month Norway will decide which type will be bought to replace their fleet of already withdrawn from active use, so called 'flying nightmares'.
Next in line to have a early replacement in mid 2020's will be the Netherlands! By 2027 they will get rid off their fleet.
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Post by joey05 on Mar 23, 2023 11:45:47 GMT 12
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Post by Mustang51 on Mar 23, 2023 14:32:33 GMT 12
Another exhibit for the Army museum at Oakey, Qld.........
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Post by 11SQNLDR on Mar 26, 2023 12:38:20 GMT 12
Seems the French are determined to sell us submarines   |
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