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Post by Dave Homewood on May 18, 2023 9:29:04 GMT 12
I really hope one of them gets the Wairarapa Wild Cat nose art.  |
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Post by jimtheeagle on May 18, 2023 10:20:03 GMT 12
I did actually hear much the same myself a couple of months ago. Not sure there are a lot of them going spare, however, the RN only have 28 of them.
JT
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Post by machina on May 18, 2023 11:50:56 GMT 12
I hear from good sources we will be leasing some Wildcats before the year is out as the Seasprites apparently can't be safely maintained in service beyond the end of this year (no OEM support). If that’s the case then leasing is smart/only option I guess. Just hope the actual replacement is a good choice. Spotting will be good though |
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Post by pepe on May 18, 2023 14:48:47 GMT 12
I hear from good sources we will be leasing some Wildcats before the year is out as the Seasprites apparently can't be safely maintained in service beyond the end of this year (no OEM support). Who would be providing these "leased" helicopters? As has already been mentioned above there is only a small existing pool of airframes. The AW159 also cannot carry the Mk.46/54 torpedoes or Penguin ASM which raises further questions as integrating these existing weapons for a small fleet would not be economic. |
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Post by Calum on May 18, 2023 15:08:58 GMT 12
The Panther is pretty old based on the ancient Dalphin The H160M will be fielded by the French Military but IIRC not in a naval role I think there are some concerns over the amount of Chinese content (IIRC it was concern when it was bid as the RAF's Puma replacement ) MH-60S hasn't been in production for ages. The Aussies have had to buy more Romeos to replace the MRH 90 when the Serria would have been better, Why better? With 36 MH-60Rs they have enough airframes to cover all operational needs, along with training aircraft. Yes, in theory additional MH-60Rs were bought as a "replacement" for the no longer wanted MRH90 transport helicopters, but I suspect the Navy had no issues with purchasing a far more capable aircraft. The 12 additional aircraft for 808 Sqn were bought to replace the MRH-90 in the utility role as opposed to the ASW/ASuW role which is what the Romeo's of 816 do. From what I hear the 808 sqn aircraft will be operated as in hte utility role and will have some of the equipment removed so as to be able to carry a useful internal load of pax and stuff. Whether they actually operate all 12 is yet to be seen. From what I observe every day neither 816/725 Sqn do now. The cabin of the Romeo, is smaller than the MH-60S. I suspect, if they could have purchased the Serria for the 12 new machines rather than the Romeo they would have. |
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Post by Calum on May 18, 2023 15:13:58 GMT 12
I hear from good sources we will be leasing some Wildcats before the year is out as the Seasprites apparently can't be safely maintained in service beyond the end of this year (no OEM support). Who would be providing these "leased" helicopters? As has already been mentioned above there are only a small existing pool of airframes. The AW159 also cannot carry the Mk.46/54 torpedoes or Penguin ASM which raises further questions as integrating thses existing weapon for a small fleet would not be economic. The OEM? Especially if they was the possibility of a purchase later on The Wildcat can carry Sea Venom missiles and Stingray torpedo's..I doubt it could carry the penguin . And integrating that and the Mk 54 Torpedo would be madness when the Wildcat already has comparable weapons. Clearly what vessels the replacement helicopter is operate off, along with what is available quickly and of course cost are the drivers. The required timeframe is clearly why the Wildcat lease is an option. They wait for a Romeo is 3 plus years (if the RAN's experience is anything to go by) having working on an Airbus product in the past I'd not touch the 2 Airbus products with a bargepole. |
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madmark
Flight Lieutenant
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Post by madmark on May 18, 2023 16:20:33 GMT 12
Losing the Penguin is no great loss, its a short range, slow, draggy missile. Any capable modern warship will have downed the helicopter well before it was able to get close enough to release the Penguin.
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Post by skyhawkdon on May 18, 2023 16:39:06 GMT 12
I hear from good sources we will be leasing some Wildcats before the year is out as the Seasprites apparently can't be safely maintained in service beyond the end of this year (no OEM support). Who would be providing these "leased" helicopters? As has already been mentioned above there are only a small existing pool of airframes. The AW159 also cannot carry the Mk.46/54 torpedoes or Penguin ASM which raises further questions as integrating thses existing weapon for a small fleet would not be economic. RN |
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Post by jimtheeagle on May 18, 2023 20:05:20 GMT 12
Can the RN spare what I would assume was a minimum of four airframes or more from a pool of 28? Leonardo certainly doesn't have any on the production line they could divert. Assuming the RN could supply the cabs the timeframe would be dictated by how quickly the crews could be trained. Do we have any bods on a conversion course at Yeovilton?
JT
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Post by 11SQNLDR on May 19, 2023 13:45:17 GMT 12
Can the RN spare what I would assume was a minimum of four airframes or more from a pool of 28? Leonardo certainly doesn't have any on the production line they could divert. Assuming the RN could supply the cabs the timeframe would be dictated by how quickly the crews could be trained. Do we have any bods on a conversion course at Yeovilton? JT These are likely the same Brit MOD bean-counters that have now grounded their C-130J fleet as of this week placing them up for sale as the A400M can apparently do the job!!  Any chance to make a quick buck to a lease / sale to the Kiwis will probably be snapped up. Shame we weren't up for some GR.9 Harriers a few year back at the bargain price the USMC got them for  Wildcat will be a good interim platform, I shall watch with interest! |
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Post by machina on May 19, 2023 18:46:53 GMT 12
These are likely the same Brit MOD bean-counters that have now grounded their C-130J fleet as of this week placing them up for sale as the A400M can apparently do the job!! Is this true?? |
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Post by 30sqnatc on May 19, 2023 19:14:16 GMT 12
These are likely the same Brit MOD bean-counters that have now grounded their C-130J fleet as of this week placing them up for sale as the A400M can apparently do the job!! Is this true?? Which bit? 'the same bean counters' - probably 'grounded c-130J as of this week' - if they have its 1 month early noting they only have 6 left anyway. Kings Birthday flypast was supposed to be last flights. 'the A400M can apparently do the job - good question yet be answered. The MoD recent history of making good equipment decisions is patchy to say the least. |
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madmark
Flight Lieutenant
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Post by madmark on May 20, 2023 3:55:26 GMT 12
Yup, the UK is unloading the C-130, in favour of A-400M and the C-17. Expect to see other nations ditching the C-130 as its too small. In the 60's it could carry helos and armoured vehicles (think UH-1 and M-113). Modern helos and armoured vehicles will no longer fit so the utility of the C-130 is significantly reduced. Interesting that NZ is signed up to the J regardless of this.
Anyway, enough thread-drift.
Its going to be Wildcat.. (which ironically, probably would fit in a C-130)
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Post by 11SQNLDR on May 20, 2023 11:50:21 GMT 12
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Post by machina on May 20, 2023 15:22:37 GMT 12
If some do head our way it would be cool if the camo was kept.
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Post by Dave Homewood on May 20, 2023 15:41:48 GMT 12
Fair to say selling the 15 strong Herc fleet is NOT an entirely popular decision if the incoming CAS is openly commenting. I got the impression that last Chief of Air Staff was not at all popular with the troops, and made some terrible decisions. They called him Woke Wigston. |
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Post by Dave Homewood on May 20, 2023 18:20:22 GMT 12
So a posting of Royal Navy helo units to RNZN ships, Phil?
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Post by Antonio on May 20, 2023 20:12:40 GMT 12
If some do head our way it would be cool if the camo was kept. Similar to the A-4G, That was a neat finish |
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Post by machina on May 21, 2023 0:21:22 GMT 12
So a posting of Royal Navy helo units to RNZN ships, Phil? What would that mean for 6sqn in terms of maintaining its capability? |
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Post by Antonio on May 23, 2023 18:08:45 GMT 12
Found this article: RNZN searches for naval and UAS helicopter solutions 11th May 2023 Link: www.australiandefence.com.au/news/rnzn-searches-for-naval-and-uas-helicopter-solutions A new Maritime Helicopter Replacement (MHR) project has been initiated that will see the Royal New Zealand Navy’s (RNZN’s) existing eight SH-2G(I) Seasprite helicopters replaced from 2027-28. Published by the New Zealand Ministry of Defence on 24 April, a Request for Information (RFI) has called for details about helicopter platforms that could provide the RNZN the capability to better conduct multi-domain warfare in the littorals. Roles for the MHR include anti-surface warfare, anti-submarine warfare, joint fires support, Intelligence Surveillance and Reconnaissance, force protection, search and rescue, logistics, casualty evacuation and boarding operations. A key requirement is interoperability with Australia and other coalition partners. The RFI also wants details about through-life support arrangements, training and mission support. An additional requirement is for a new Uncrewed Aerial System (UAS). Richard Schmidt, Deputy Secretary, Defence Policy and Planning at the MoD told ADM that the UAS “is viewed as a potential complementary capability to the [MHR] helicopter.” He explained that depending on the task “the UAS may operate alongside the helicopter or it may operate on its own.” It is not clear if the Seasprites will be replaced on a one-for-one basis. “The number of helicopters and UAS that may be purchased is subject to further analysis before decisions are made. The responses to the RFI will be used to inform this analysis,” Schmidt said, “If selected, is intended to provide options to the Maritime Component Commander to select the right tool for the task.”
The RFI indicates that industry estimates for products are presented in July 2025 prices suggesting a contract may be awarded in this timeframe. The Defence Capability Plan 2019 (DCP2019) said a request for tender is due in 2024 and the total cost of the MHR project is more than NZ$1 billion.
Schmidt said that the MoD “is interested in investigating synergies between platforms. This may be through rationalisation of platform types, cockpit functionality, or common systems and spares.” The NZDF also operates the NHI NH 90 Tactical Transport Helicopter and the Leonardo A109 light utility helicopter.
The RNZN’s 6 Squadron, which operates the Seasprites, is closely involved in defining MHR requirements. It does not want to operate and maintain another ‘orphan’ fleet of helicopters that is not used by other countries, as it limits the support network available.
“Defence will evaluate, amongst other criteria, the global fleet, life of type and obsolescence management plans of any proposed replacement capability,” Schmidt said.
The DCP2019 first called for the MHR to replace the Seasprite helicopters. There has been concern in defence circles that the Seasprites may not achieve their out of service dates due to a difficulty in securing spare parts.
Ten Seasprite helicopters were acquired from US manufacturer Kaman Aerospace under a NZ$242.2 million contract signed in March 2013. Originally destined for Australia the aircraft did not enter service and were instead delivered to New Zealand from 2015. Two have been used for spares, but the Seasprite fleet will only have been in-service for little over a decade before they are retired.
The urgency of the MHR is because the Seasprites provide the RNZN with the essential aviation component of its Naval Combat Force (NCF), centred on its two Anzac-class frigates. The NCF represents the NZDF’s only offensive capability alongside the Royal New Zealand Air Force’s (RNZAF’s) new P-8A maritime patrol aircraft. |
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