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Post by alanster on Aug 8, 2023 20:13:07 GMT 12
Announced last Friday by Defence Minister, Andrew Little and a product of the National Security Strategy (NSS) - a first ever for NZ. NSS: (my brief summary but not an exhaustive summary) - No more benign security environment; era of strategic competition in the region & increase in dis/misinformation domestically; increased threat of terrorism. - China is a threat to NZ’s trade routes in South China Sea & to NZ’s influence in its near abroad (the Pacific) FFDP: - Guides the defence capability plan (investment priorities) Principles: (3 Fixed)  (8 Sliding)   |
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Post by alanster on Aug 8, 2023 20:14:33 GMT 12
Discussion about this was veering off-topic in the other thread so I thought I’d start a new thread about it.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Aug 9, 2023 8:51:14 GMT 12
Here's a suggestion for NZDF, save huge amount of time, money and hassle by dropping that "climate crisis" crap out of it. Put that money into your people and equipment!
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Post by alanster on Aug 9, 2023 9:52:26 GMT 12
Here's a suggestion for NZDF, save huge amount of time, money and hassle by dropping that "climate crisis" crap out of it. Put that money into your people and equipment! Climate change results in scarce resources. Scarce resources results in competition for scarce resources. Competition for scarce resources results in political instability and political instability results in wars and wars result in humanitarian emergencies. |
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Post by falcon124 on Aug 10, 2023 9:40:56 GMT 12
Like it or not, climate shit is happening and, as alanster said, it is going to drive a LOT of crap ranging from HADR to outright conflict, not to mention more distruptions to operations due weather issues. We've got fishers down south here in Oz saying they're starting to catch fish they'd normally see up in QLD, farmers watching their seasons change, lots more damage & disruption due to "One in 100 year" events that have happened 2-3 times in the last 50, etc.
It's there, but it's being bashed about by far-left & far-right bullshit and the media hype & clickbait, much of it fuelled by vested interests in the status quo who haven't realised that things have moved on. Crazy times and they'd have to have their head up their butt to not be considering it. Check US military, AU military, etc - all recognising that it's going to cause problems in many ways.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Aug 10, 2023 16:32:50 GMT 12
Whether climate change is there or not, I do not see how it needs to be a major part in the current recovery programme to get our Defence Force back up to speed. It will suck up valuable time, money and personnel resources from the recovery that we cannot afford, and that is better spent on proper thorough training and re-equipment.
My point is we should only worry about the long term weather stuff AFTER you have rescued the military from the dreadful place where the current idiots in charge have allowed it to get to.
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Hoffy
Pilot Officer
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Post by Hoffy on Aug 10, 2023 20:46:49 GMT 12
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Post by nighthawknz on Aug 11, 2023 5:08:48 GMT 12
Here's a suggestion for NZDF, save huge amount of time, money and hassle by dropping that "climate crisis" crap out of it. Put that money into your people and equipment! I agree ... but to be fair that is how you can sell it to the masses... one of the selling points fr Aussies 2 LHD's was for responding to Climate crisis situations ie Cyclone season etc... and if we can use the same to get a proper LPD's with well deck as per DCP2019 then sure I am for that. |
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Post by madmac on Aug 11, 2023 9:22:43 GMT 12
Whether climate change is there or not, I do not see how it needs to be a major part in the current recovery programme to get our Defence Force back up to speed. It will suck up valuable time, money and personnel resources from the recovery that we cannot afford, and that is better spent on proper thorough training and re-equipment. My point is we should only worry about the long term weather stuff AFTER you have rescued the military from the dreadful place where the current idiots in charge have allowed it to get to. I would note that the US forces used greening / reducing carbon emissions as a sales pitch to reduce the logistical tail for operations in Afghanistan (in practice more solar / energey efficently = less fuel convoys required). |
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Post by Dave Homewood on Aug 11, 2023 9:37:06 GMT 12
I agree ... but to be fair that is how you can sell it to the masses... One of the big problems with this country is the government only does what it says the "masses" want, not what the country actually needs regardless of public opinion - and that public opinion has already been swayed by government over the years anyway into thinking what the govt wants them to think, especially these days when they control most of the media. Labour will have an uphill battle trying to persuade New Zealanders we need to expand the Defence Force after years of them brainwashing the people into thinking we're safe and isolated and we do not need such costly and unnecessary things as Defence. The next government will be fighting the same battle against a public subdued into ignorance, and the media who will fight it all the way if National tries it. The usual bullshit of "the money is better spent on health and education" will be trotted out. Well the last few years has made it abundantly clear that New Zealand is not spending the money on health or education when they funnel it away from Defence. Health has been placed into the same level of crisis as defence by government policy, and education in NZ is at its worst point ever. So where has the money gone? This is why we do not need the "climate crisis" crap sucking up more of the money that needs to be spent of actual defence. Let the skilled, trained and experienced Defence personnel get on with their jobs, and forget all the pie in the sky climate crap. Some govt department with its own budget should handle that waste of time and money. |
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Post by 11SQNLDR on Aug 11, 2023 11:30:58 GMT 12
I agree ... but to be fair that is how you can sell it to the masses... One of the big problems with this country is the government only does what it says the "masses" want, not what the country actually needs regardless of public opinion - and that public opinion has already been swayed by government over the years anyway into thinking what the govt wants them to think, especially these days when they control most of the media. Labour will have an uphill battle trying to persuade New Zealanders we need to expand the Defence Force after years of them brainwashing the people into thinking we're safe and isolated and we do not need such costly and unnecessary things as Defence. The next government will be fighting the same battle against a public subdued into ignorance, and the media who will fight it all the way if National tries it. The usual bullshit of "the money is better spent on health and education" will be trotted out. Well the last few years has made it abundantly clear that New Zealand is not spending the money on health or education when they funnel it away from Defence. Health has been placed into the same level of crisis as defence by government policy, and education in NZ is at its worst point ever. So where has the money gone? This is why we do not need the "climate crisis" crap sucking up more of the money that needs to be spent of actual defence. Let the skilled, trained and experienced Defence personnel get on with their jobs, and forget all the pie in the sky climate crap. Some govt department with its own budget should handle that waste of time and money. Well said Dave, the focus must be on the defence aspect without the un-necessary "climate emergency" sideshow. It's a wonder this lot haven't just made a simple policy of welcoming any invaders by the team of 5 million with some lovely teddy bears in their windows  I fear the incoming Govt will be in damage-control mode for some time but hopefully defence gets a much needed push before too long. |
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Post by ErrolC on Aug 11, 2023 13:01:16 GMT 12
Whether climate change is there or not, I do not see how it needs to be a major part in the current recovery programme to get our Defence Force back up to speed. It will suck up valuable time, money and personnel resources from the recovery that we cannot afford, and that is better spent on proper thorough training and re-equipment. My point is we should only worry about the long term weather stuff AFTER you have rescued the military from the dreadful place where the current idiots in charge have allowed it to get to. It should be a major consideration. As well as the geo-political aspect, we should not build facilities that will be impacted by sea level rises, or eg accommodation that is suitable for the climate of the last thirty years rather than expected climate of the next 30 years. |
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Post by Dave Homewood on Aug 11, 2023 13:54:57 GMT 12
Lol, like a rise of 1C over the next 1000 years will make any difference to the coldness of the barrack blocks.
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Post by errolmartyn on Aug 11, 2023 14:12:21 GMT 12
. . . the government . . ., especially these days when they control most of the media. . . . [/quote] And your evidence to support this claim is . . . ? Errol |
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Post by Dave Homewood on Aug 11, 2023 14:14:14 GMT 12
Where have you been for the past three years? Head in the sand?
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Post by errolmartyn on Aug 11, 2023 15:24:51 GMT 12
Where have you been for the past three years? Head in the sand? So, no evidence then! Errol |
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Post by Dave Homewood on Aug 11, 2023 15:29:37 GMT 12
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boz
Sergeant
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Post by boz on Aug 11, 2023 17:02:41 GMT 12
Breath deeply Dave. the video clip is apt. Some get it, some don't, and some still believe the media is there to tell us the truth rather than make money.
Whether you believe the narrative or not, Daves eloquent statement is absolutely correct. Lots of money has gone away, we have nothing to show for it, and the wise man would stop pouring money into the hole until he knew where it went.
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Post by machina on Aug 11, 2023 18:28:29 GMT 12
Excuse the pun but let’s take some of the heat out.
The focus is whether the NZDF is combat ready. Once a war breaks out, it almost doesn’t matter how we got there, it only matters if the military is capable of meeting the enemy.
Differing opinion on climate change as just one driver (or not) of many in starting the war is therefore irrelevant.
However, whatever your opinion of the issue, the fact is there is a cultural/social/political momentum behind it, and if that can be leveraged to help restore the NZDF then let it be leveraged.
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Post by 30sqnatc on Aug 11, 2023 18:30:52 GMT 12
One of the big problems with this country is the government only does what it says the "masses" want, not what the country actually needs regardless of public opinion - and that public opinion has already been swayed by government over the years anyway into thinking what the govt wants them to think, especially these days when they control most of the media. Labour will have an uphill battle trying to persuade New Zealanders we need to expand the Defence Force after years of them brainwashing the people into thinking we're safe and isolated and we do not need such costly and unnecessary things as Defence. The next government will be fighting the same battle against a public subdued into ignorance, and the media who will fight it all the way if National tries it. The usual bullshit of "the money is better spent on health and education" will be trotted out. Well the last few years has made it abundantly clear that New Zealand is not spending the money on health or education when they funnel it away from Defence. Health has been placed into the same level of crisis as defence by government policy, and education in NZ is at its worst point ever. So where has the money gone? This is why we do not need the "climate crisis" crap sucking up more of the money that needs to be spent of actual defence. Let the skilled, trained and experienced Defence personnel get on with their jobs, and forget all the pie in the sky climate crap. Some govt department with its own budget should handle that waste of time and money. Well said Dave, the focus must be on the defence aspect without the un-necessary "climate emergency" sideshow. It's a wonder this lot haven't just made a simple policy of welcoming any invaders by the team of 5 million with some lovely teddy bears in their windows I fear the incoming Govt will be in damage-control mode for some time but hopefully defence gets a much needed push before too long. Shhh. Don't mention the bears, that is the secret plan. As the invaders storm up the beaches they will be confronted with 'bears, golden brown, peacemaking' available in three sizes c/w tracker to provide red dot on battle tracking system. |
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