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Post by snafu on Oct 7, 2024 18:13:17 GMT 12
Minister of Defence Judith Collins indicated on TVNZ this morning that the ship may have lost power before hitting the reef I wonder if that makes Babcock nervous. Why? |
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chasper
Flight Lieutenant
Posts: 90
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Post by chasper on Oct 7, 2024 18:35:38 GMT 12
I heard Minister Collins this morning on the radio (ZB) and she did seem to imply that the ship may have caught fire and lost power prior to striking the reef. The reality is that the ship will have had a Voyage Data Recorder (VDR) operating and this is more than likely recoverable so the naval inquiry will know exactly what happened and the order in which things occurred.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Oct 7, 2024 19:23:17 GMT 12
The question is will the Navy divers actually be able to dive on the wreck to recover the VDR without their dive vessel? Or will they need to see if they can get one of our allied Navies to help out? I suspect all their dive equipment probably went down with the ship.
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Post by machina on Oct 7, 2024 19:28:43 GMT 12
I wonder if that makes Babcock nervous. Why? Just wondered if loss of power brings it closer to the realm of a maintenance issue which, from memory, is done by Babcock. However I’m thoroughly prepared to be harshly corrected and appropriately bollocked on all points raised. |
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Post by snafu on Oct 7, 2024 20:37:57 GMT 12
Just wondered if loss of power brings it closer to the realm of a maintenance issue which, from memory, is done by Babcock. However I’m thoroughly prepared to be harshly corrected and appropriately bollocked on all points raised. No you are right, if it was a fire first then it could have blow back if the can recover the parts that caught fire I’m just trying to remember if it was HMAS Westralia (O 195) that caught fire because incorrect parts were fitted by a contractor or was it HMAS Kanimbla |
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Post by Antonio on Oct 8, 2024 7:49:07 GMT 12
Just musing here:
The current lot in gubment can't sort out simple inter-islander ferries so what chance does a replacement ultra-specialist ship have??
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Post by ErrolC on Oct 8, 2024 10:00:26 GMT 12
Just musing here: The current lot in gubment can't sort out simple inter-islander ferries so what chance does a replacement ultra-specialist ship have?? Actually they aren't simple (being rail-capable), which is all the more reason not to cancel the contract. I think there might be a bigger market for dive support ships than rail-capable sea-going ferries! HMNZS Canterbury is now heading up. www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/350443324/one-thousand-tonnes-diesel-sunken-manawanui |
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Post by ErrolC on Oct 8, 2024 10:22:46 GMT 12
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Post by snafu on Oct 8, 2024 12:14:07 GMT 12
Just musing here: The current lot in gubment can't sort out simple inter-islander ferries so what chance does a replacement ultra-specialist ship have?? Actually they aren't simple (being rail-capable), which is all the more reason not to cancel the contract. I think there might be a bigger market for dive support ships than rail-capable sea-going ferries! HMNZS Canterbury is now heading up. www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/350443324/one-thousand-tonnes-diesel-sunken-manawanuiInteresting the article says they do have some sort of insurance, but not the ship itself |
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Post by ErrolC on Oct 8, 2024 13:31:18 GMT 12
Interesting the article says they do have some sort of insurance, but not the ship itself I wonder if that type of insurance is required by ports etc as working with insurers is preferred over trying to get money directly from Governments! |
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Post by Dave Homewood on Oct 8, 2024 13:38:51 GMT 12
I would assume that it would be standard in a case like this where a ship has a major incident (and in this case is lost) that all the crew on duty would have to undergo drug and alcohol testing?
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Post by Antonio on Oct 8, 2024 13:56:10 GMT 12
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Post by joey05 on Oct 8, 2024 14:33:37 GMT 12
The crew didn't abandon for over an hour so potentially had time to fight a fire before calling to abandon ship, it seems from my armchair it caught fire after the fact, perhaps electrical once water had ingress the hull. I'm no Navy expert (but know a thing or 2 about runabouts), but if there has been a loss of power and or steering wouldn't you immediately drop anchor, especially around a lot of unmapped reefs?
Just an opinion
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Post by 30sqnatc on Oct 8, 2024 16:07:09 GMT 12
[/i]Words escape me!!!!!! [/quote] Ship recognition skills nil |
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Post by ErrolC on Oct 8, 2024 16:48:42 GMT 12
Anti-speculation video from Sal Mercogliano at What is Going on With Shipping?
He slips up with the relative size of the Manawanui but this is a minor distraction. Addresses some of the silly theories out there (the cables are on the other side of the island...).
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Post by johnnyfalcon on Oct 8, 2024 18:01:54 GMT 12
Whatever the case, I just hope the NZ authorities pull out all stops, cost-be-damned, and do all that is humanly possible to avert a marine bio-catastrophe...
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Post by Dave Homewood on Oct 8, 2024 19:34:57 GMT 12
RNZN divers assess sunken ship in Samoa HMNZS Manawanui is in water about 30m deep and a light oil sheen from its initial capsize is being dispersed by wind and waves, Maritime Component Commander Commodore Shane Arndell says.08 October, 2024 Royal New Zealand Navy (RNZN) divers were on the water at first light today to assess the wreckage of the ship, which ran on to a reef south of Upolu on Saturday night and sunk on Sunday morning. “The dive team has begun assessing the area where HMNZS Manawanui sank to better understand the environmental impacts and clean-up efforts required in Samoa,” Commodore Arndell said. A number of government agencies are involved in supporting the Samoan Government’s response to the incident, Experts from Maritime New Zealand and other agencies are also assisting with understanding the environmental impacts and initiating clean-up actions. Wildlife experts from Massey University have been assisting with the response and the New Zealand Defence Force, which has 28 personnel in Samoa, is working closely with the Samoan Government. A range of equipment was sent to Samoa with New Zealand Defence Force personnel (NZDF) to assist with the initial response and help address environmental impacts to the area. Equipment includes remotely operated vehicles used to establish the debris field, and also Maritime NZ spill response equipment, which can be used both in the water and on the land. “Our personnel have begun clearing flotsam from the beach area and environmental assessments and clean up activities are under way.” “A light oil sheen from the ship’s initial capsizing is being dispersed by wind and waves," Commodore Arndell said. Maritime NZ responders are working closely with Samoan authorities, and NZDF personnel on the ground, to develop plans around how to support the environmental response. The Royal Navy’s HMS Tamar is helping provide security and logistical support in the immediate area. “As more information is gathered from the responders on the ground, NZDF will bring further equipment from New Zealand to support the response,’’ Commodore Arndell said. The site of the sunken vessel – which is lying about 30m deep - had been declared a “prohibited area” by Samoan officials. Late on Monday night, 72 of the 75 crew and passengers rescued from Manawanui arrived back in New Zealand on board a RNZAF C-130J Hercules. They were being provided welfare support and were re-uniting with families this afternoon. The three other members from another government agency were due to return today on a commercial flight. HMNZS Manawanui Commanding Officer Commander Yvonne Gray said the incident was when her “very worst imagining became a reality”. “However, my team responded in exactly the way I needed them to. They acted with commitment, with comradeship and, above all, with courage.” Crew members from HMNZS Manawanui arrive at RNZAF Base Auckland after being flown back from Samoa
www.nzdf.mil.nz/media-centre/news/rnzn-divers-assess-sunken-ship-in-samoa/ |
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Post by Dave Homewood on Oct 9, 2024 9:07:32 GMT 12
There have been a couple of speculative and unsavoury posts made on this thread. Some I had not seen till just now. I have had to moderate the thread with a few trims.
Please DO NOT speculate on the cause of the accident here.
And please DO NOT post derogatory comments or clips about the sailors involved.
Leave the investigation to the experts. If you feel you have something to say that will help their investigation, contact the RNZN.
Carry on.
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Post by ErrolC on Oct 9, 2024 10:09:52 GMT 12
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Post by hardyakka on Oct 9, 2024 16:11:39 GMT 12
The Navy Dive team must have travelled up to Samoa on the Hercules with all their gear. Luckily they weren't embarked on the Manawanui at the time it foundered and sank. They'd would've had to get gear from the local dive shops to go down and retrieve their own stuff. At least the 30m wreck depth is within the limits for safe diving using standard SCUBA kit.
Here are the standard topics from the International Marine Organisation about what data a Voyage Data Recorder should collect:
5.5 Data items to be recorded
5.5.1 Date and time
5.5.2 Ship's position
5.5.3 Speed
5.5.4 Heading
5.5.5 Bridge audio (two microphones)
5.5.6 Communications audio all radios
5.5.7 Radar
5.5.8 ECDIS (Electronic Chart Display and Information System)
5.5.9 Echo sounder depth under keel
5.5.10 Main alarms
5.5.11 Rudder order and response
5.5.12 Engine and thruster order and response
5.5.13 Hull openings status
5.5.14 Watertight and fire door status
5.5.15 Accelerations and hull stresses
5.5.16 Wind speed and direction
5.5.17 AIS (Marine Transponder)
5.5.18 Rolling motion
5.5.19 Configuration data
5.5.20 Electronic logbook (where fitted)
The Navy might record more channels than that...
The standard doesn't state the frequency with which the point data items are recorded, but I would guess a one minute interval might be sufficient? Then possibly a rolling hour's worth of audio recordings... ?
N.B. The standard also says it should have enough internal power reserve (battery) to last for a minimum of two hours if ship's power to the unit is lost.
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