Handley-Page Victor

[Jeff Law]

From memory, these shots of a visting Handley-Page Victor were taken by me at an Ohakea in about 1957.







Jeff Law
Mt Maunganui

[Dave Homewood]

Thanks for posting them here Jeff. What was a Victor in NZ for, anyone know? Were the exercisies were they made mock bombing missions against NZ and we had to defend or something? How often did Victors visit? Or is this the only one?

[oj]

There were two Victors at Ohakea in 1963 when there was also a big airshow/open day (the same time we had three F105D Thunderchiefs there). I have some photos that I might put up when I get to know the system a bit better!
Or, Dave, can I email them to you to put up?
OJ

[oj]

Sorry,
That was probably 1964 the two Victors were at Ohakea. I did not have dates on the prints.
OJ

[phil82]

Those two Victors were at Ohakea in 1964. They are the Victor 1A model, belonging to 100 Squadron "The Tatty Ton". I know, 'cos I was there!

[woodinhead]

Hey check this out accidental take off of a victor during high speed taxi run at at Bruntingthorpe,
I expect the pilot needed to do some laundry after this

[sopwitht1]

"What was a Victor in NZ for, anyone know? Were the exercisies were they made mock bombing missions against NZ and we had to defend or something? How often did Victors visit? Or is this the only one?"

A possible answer I discovered in a book about Vulcans, although it doesn't explain exactly what the Victor was doing here...

"From the British Ministry of Defence's point of view these exercises and overseas flights had the following broad objectives:-

a) to demonstrate that the V-Bomber could be deployed quickly around the world, and to practise such deployments.
b) to maintain the [strategic nuclear] deterrent and its credibility. [Note the anti-flash white colour scheme and toned down roundels and markings]
c) to allow Allied and friendly nations to manoeuvre their own air forces, with and against large jet bombers.
d) To give crews practise in long distance flying."

Throughout the Malayan 'Confrontation' V-Bomber sqns were regularly routed to the Far East in what the RAF called the "Sunflower" detachments; the movement of sqns to and from the Far East during the confrontation was also referred to as the "Matterhorn Rotation". Visits to Oz and NZ were - as in the book - a flag waving exercise and a chance with our forces to mix it with the big boys.

I'm looking into exactly which Vulcans visited NZ and when; perhaps I should also include Victors too?

[Deleted]

Jul 13, 2009 18:42:58 GMT 12 woodinhead said:

Hey check this out accidental take off of a victor during high speed taxi run at at Bruntingthorpe,
I expect the pilot needed to do some laundry after this

The pilot of said Victor has put his side of the story across at the Key Publishing photos. A very informative thread, it covers the entire story...apparently the pilot has a statement of sorts in the August issue of "FlyPast".

Very impressive video and photos have appeared after the incident!

I'd love to see any more shots of Victors in NZ.

[oj]

As I said on July 12 above, I have some photos of the Victors at Ohakea in 1964 but I need to email them to someone else to load to the forum, as I do not have the means.
Any volunteer can email me and tell me what scanned configuration and size you would like and whether in jpg or pdf or whatever .....
Any chance?
OJ

[shorty]

In the last of those Victor photos you can see two more in the background so bang go my thoughts that it was the Air show one.

[oj]

Yes, not Ohakea those shots. The hangar layout is not right for Ohakea.
Some shots of the two Victors at Ohakea in 1964 will be put up here imminently.
OJ

[Dave Homewood]

OJ has sent me his photos and I will have them up here very soon, when I get time. Watch this space, they're great!!

[Dave Homewood]

As promised here are the photos from OJ. He writes:

"There are eight in total. They were taken and produced unglazed in a hurry by amateur photographer LAC Owen J Cunliffe in 1964.

He and I were both working in the Ground Equipment Bay in No. 5 Hangar Tech Wing at Ohakea at the time. We should give photo-credit acknowledgement to him please.

They have been kicking around a while, so some are not very clean and have developer marks unfortunately."

Here are the photos:

001. Victor taxiing in towards parking in front of Ohakea tower.


002. Two Victors parked at Ohakea.


003. Victor XM-715 parked at Ohakea tower.


004. Victor doing a spirited take-off at Ohakea while 18 aircraft from the Central Flying School at Wigram arrive in formation from the south at top right of frame.


005. Victor underside pass with some flap and u/c down.


006. Victor XM-715 tail feathers. Note the open dorsal scoop-door above the roundel and possible flush vent further to the rear. Might this be an on-board APU? The aircraft in background is a Republic F105D Thunderchief of the 18th Tactical Fighter Wing, USAF.


007. Victor drag-brake extended. 14 Squadron T13 just landed in background.


008. Victor tagging: RAAF Neptune P2V-7, Ohakea Kiwi, USAF Thunderchief 18th TFW.

Under the kiwi it reads OHAKEA, NZ and the round symbol has Lockheed Neptune on it

[phil82]

Ahh! The Mighty Victor. I spent two years at RAF Cottesmore with 10 and 15 Sqns with the Victor 1A. We lost two Victors while I was there from 1960-62, one of which crashed on take-off in Cyprus killing all on board, and the other which crashed on approach to Cottesmore. The Victors were the first operational model, the MK1 A, and often had brake trouble on landing resulting in wheel fires. Aircraft disc brakes and magnesium wheels are a nasty combination when burning, so they had to be dealt with expeditiously. The procedure was usually initiated by placing a crash vehicle with only the driver on board at the end of the runway to observe the aircraft as it turned onto the taxi-way. If there were indications of excessive heat, or flame, then the aircraft would be stopped and a direct link established with the pilot by plugging in an intercom link on the nose. Hopefully, by then the rest of the crash crew would have arrived and the nose-wheel would be chocked, and the pilot told to release the aircraft brakes while they were inspected. If there was, indeed, a main undercarriage wheel fire, you told the pilot to shut down and abandon the aircraft. You made sure at this point that you were nowhere near the exit door, as those “V” bomber crews knew how to leave an aircraft fast, and you didn’t need to be in the way when it happened! Do this at dead of night, in rain, hail, or snow, with all four mighty jet engines running and all sorts of sharp projections around waiting to do you an injury, and you tended to concentrate your mind on the job in hand. These aircraft also had large brake parachutes released on touchdown, and we had to remove them from the runway once the pilot released it. You had to be very quick about it, as quite often you could look along the flight path and see another, possibly two or three aircraft approaching for landing. The parachutes were huge, and difficult to handle in a wind, and for the new boys, there was the additional hazard of getting a ‘belt’ of static electricity from the nylon. You learned this by experience, because no one told you it would happen! It was harmless of course, but shocking nonetheless.

These aircraft carried nuclear weapons, and we weren’t supposed to ask or know where the aircraft had been, although the fact that they were away for eight hours or so gave a clue. The weapons were stored in a special bomb dump on the far side of the airfield, under very high security, and when the time came to load them onto the aircraft, they were escorted all the way to the ’pan’ by RAF Police, Armourers [ “cracker-stackers”], and of course a fire-truck. I once saw a weapon [they were never called bombs] go by with a CND “Ban-the-Bomb” sticker attached, proving that air force humour was never far away. Both 10 and 15 squadrons were operational, and four aircraft were, at all times. On QRA, or Quick Reaction Alert status to go immediately the call was given, when they were expected to be airborne with in minutes. When this happened, all four engines were started simultaneously, and the aircraft would accelerate out of its hard-standing directly onto the runway, and take-off. It was a stunning and unforgettable sight for any aircraft enthusiast to see four very large aircraft, 12 engines at full thrust, hurtling skywards and breaking into four different directions. There have been many books and articles written about the existence of the “V” force and the nuclear deterrent, and ‘mutually assured destruction’ as the Americans termed it, and though those RAF aircrews never discussed it, it seems highly likely they all knew that had the take-off been for real, then they were on a one-way trip.

The aircrews got notification of an exercise or a practice scramble at the same time as we did, and the idea was that we headed for the aircraft in case of any problems, and with the sole intention of never being beaten by the aircrew coach! I never lost, always trying to look nonchalant as they arrived, as though I’d been there for ever!

The Victor that was lost at Cottesmore, XH163 on the 18th July 1960 was on approach and about three miles or so out and at roughly 1500’ when, as I learned much later, all four engines ran out of fuel. We were always notified by the Control Tower of the aircraft’s intentions, i.e whether he was landing, or rolling; that is touching down and taking off again. It was about five miles out when it gently banked to the left, and the three back-seat crew bailed out, followed shortly after by the two pilots ejecting. I also attended the crash of a Jet Provost , then the RAFs primary jet training aircraft, which had come down not too far away from Cottesmore after the pilot got himself into a bit of trouble. He ejected from the aircraft, and we collected him complete with parachute, then took him to see what was left of his aircraft.

Cottesmore was fairly rural, not far from Oakham in Rutland, with lots of quaint little pubs to be frequented, particularly the Sun Inn in Cottesmore Village itself. The CO at the time was one Johnny Johnson, the famous wartime fighter pilot, and he had a habit of entering the Base without anyone knowing by coming in one of the many crash gates around the airfield. These gate were designed to fracture when hit hit by a crash vehicle on the way to an incident off-airfield, but to all intents and purposes were a normal gate, complete with a chain and padlock. The Fire Section held keys to all of the gates, and it was not at all unusual for the Control Tower to call us and say that the CO was at Crash Gate One, can you go and let him in! I raised this with Jonny Johnson at Wanaka when I told him we had met before and he claimed to remember it all!

Does anyone read this stuff?

[obiwan27]

Jul 26, 2009 13:16:23 GMT 12 phil82 said:

Does anyone read this stuff?

Yep!!!! ;D ;D

[phil82]

Jul 26, 2009 14:19:27 GMT 12 obiwan27 said:

Jul 26, 2009 13:16:23 GMT 12 phil82 said:

Does anyone read this stuff?

Yep!!!! ;D ;D

Well, that's one of you!

[ErrolC]

Jul 26, 2009 14:19:27 GMT 12 obiwan27 said:

Jul 26, 2009 13:16:23 GMT 12 phil82 said:

Does anyone read this stuff?

Yep!!!! ;D ;D

Sure thing!!

[skyhawkdon]

GREAT photos and stories!! They were a very "futuristic" looking aircraft with that nose and tail. Great that we got to see them in NZ.

[Dave Homewood]

Thanks for those stories Colin, I always enjoy reading your memories. When those aircraft crashed, what was the procedure for you guys as fire crews regarding the nuclear weapons onboard? Must have been tricky and scary?

[phil82]

Jul 26, 2009 20:39:54 GMT 12 Dave Homewood said:

Thanks for those stories Colun, I always enjoy reading your memories. When those aircraft crashed, what was the procedure for you guys as fire crews regarding the nuclear weapons onboard? Must have been tricky and scary?

They didn't routinely carry nukes, but all the NBC training I recall said there was absolutely no chance of a nuclear explosion! Which was nice! Those on QRA were, of course, armed. If a crash occurred with weapons on board, I never heard about it.

The Victor 1A was very prone to wheel fires, especially if that brake chute failed, which could happen. Potentially, those brake fires were dangerous, very dangerous! I think they tended to concentrate your mind much more than being vapourised by a nuke! Oddly enough, I can't recall if they used the 'chutes at Ohakea, possibly because a former armourer mate of mine now living in Sydney said they were a prick of a thing to re-install! They didn't really cure the brake problems until the Victor B2