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Post by kiwiscanfly on Sept 21, 2010 20:20:38 GMT 12
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Post by obiwan27 on Sept 24, 2010 20:25:21 GMT 12
Thanks kiwiscanfly that was interesting and informative reading.
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arclight
Sergeant
BOOBIES ( . ) ( . ) (.)(.) (. )( .)
Posts: 13
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Post by arclight on Sept 26, 2010 22:57:08 GMT 12
Excellent, "Kiwiscanfly". It certainly seems that according to this defense expert's signals; that the NZDF will not see any further slackening of its ability to project itself. Judging by the main points outlined, there seems to be a more serious attitude towards creditable threats, partnerships, and the need to prepare for future uncertainty - especially in East Asia.
For those of you guys that don't feel like reading it...
SPECIFICALLY HE MAINTAINED:
*The frequent use of NZDF as a foreign policy tool in places such as the Middle East, the South Pacific, and wider East Asia and the requirements of such operations, ensures that a gradual expansion of NZDF's core forces will be reflected in the White Paper. This will be a departure from the post-Vietnam - 1990s era strongly dictated over by anti-nuclear activism, fiscal limitations excuses, and the predominating social stance of distancing ourselves from our historical allies and the US.
Therefore, the Defense Review 2010 looks set to be possibly more positive than many might have been expecting if this expert's views are anything to go by.
Cheers once again and maximum Karma to you, "Kiwiscanfly"
Arclight
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Post by oggie2620 on Sept 27, 2010 11:19:11 GMT 12
Could someone tell our government that.... We are expecting swingeing cuts! Hey ho.. I wonder if they will announce the results on the same day.. Good luck to your services and to ours...
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Post by kiwiscanfly on Sept 27, 2010 23:28:04 GMT 12
I think the RAF are in for a bit more of a shock than we are  |
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Post by motoxjase on Sept 28, 2010 6:52:54 GMT 12
Very slightly of course but I see that Iraq is requesting F16s along with the support such as spare engines, weapons etc, now my point is that people say that rebuilding a Combat-Wing is near on impossible with the people and infastructure long gone but if Iraq can do it cant NZ??
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Post by ceskazbrojovka on Sept 28, 2010 9:45:00 GMT 12
I dont think it is that NZ cant do it. It is very capable to. I think it comes down to the politics of rebuilding an ACF. Most NZers from what heard on here dont seem to think it is a good idea to do so; they believe the money should be spent elsewhere. Another point to take into consideration is that Iraq is neighbours with a country they went to war with, so having so fighters is a must.
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Post by 30sqnatc on Sept 28, 2010 16:44:29 GMT 12
Very slightly of course but I see that Iraq is requesting F16s along with the support such as spare engines, weapons etc, now my point is that people say that rebuilding a Combat-Wing is near on impossible with the people and infastructure long gone but if Iraq can do it cant NZ?? Because Iraq will probably expect the US taxpayer to pay for the aircraft and provide the training. We would have to pay with NZ tax dollars. |
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Post by obiwan27 on Sept 28, 2010 20:14:13 GMT 12
Hmmm maybe the government could justify the resurrection of an Air Combat Wing on the basis of stimulating the economy and job creation?
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arclight
Sergeant
BOOBIES ( . ) ( . ) (.)(.) (. )( .)
Posts: 13
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Post by arclight on Sept 29, 2010 16:29:22 GMT 12
It would be absolute political suicide to bring back the Air Combat Wing... the only way a New Zealand government would do it, is if it was lead by an American! Our manned Air Combat Force will never ever appear again. It just won't happen guys and to think it will is delluding yourself. It really is gone !
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Hoffy
Pilot Officer
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Post by Hoffy on Sept 29, 2010 17:51:53 GMT 12
Our manned Air Combat Force will never ever appear again.
Very unlikely in the forseable future is a more appropriate way to phrase this.
You have no more clarity with crystal ball gazing than anyone else my friend.
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Post by baz62 on Sept 29, 2010 17:59:48 GMT 12
Never say never.................. ;D
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Post by yogi on Sept 29, 2010 18:02:46 GMT 12
It would be absolute political suicide to bring back the Air Combat Wing... the only way a New Zealand government would do it, is if it was lead by an American! Our manned Air Combat Force will never ever appear again. It just won't happen guys and to think it will is delluding yourself. It really is gone ! It would not be political suicide, average joe just needs to be immersed in some good pr spin for a while. The government only needs to be honest and say hey labour were acting irrationally, the ACF should never have been scrapped because we need it for... >insert multitude of valid reasons here< people dont care that much about having an acf and its just as easy to defend their use as it is to criticise. |
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Post by corsair67 on Sept 29, 2010 19:54:22 GMT 12
Well, maybe New Zealand does need an air combat force - after all we were just about ready to go to war with Australia after this incident..... ;D  ;D |
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Post by Dave Homewood on Sept 29, 2010 20:27:13 GMT 12
Maybe as an incentive of winning the World Cup they could promise a jet fighter for Squadron Leader McCaw.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Sept 29, 2010 20:29:55 GMT 12
A serious question here, if the Maachis are really as ;no good' as some say, would a cheap yet practical way back into yet flying be to buy or lease some L-39 Albatross jets? They seem pretty capable trainers, reliable, and they have a track record already in NZ. They're not very old either but seem plentiful on the market.
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Post by corokid66 on Sept 29, 2010 23:03:34 GMT 12
A serious question here, if the Maachis are really as ;no good' as some say, would a cheap yet practical way back into yet flying be to buy or lease some L-39 Albatross jets? They seem pretty capable trainers, reliable, and they have a track record already in NZ. They're not very old either but seem plentiful on the market. The cheapest way of all is to actucally solve the outstanding issues of the Macchi by a programme of installing new engines (say on the ten that could be retained) over a 3-5 year period, and secondly upgrading the the cockpit and avionic suite to the Batch II standard as what the Italians have done to their own Macchi's and the Nigerian ones as well. The result is a very capable advanced trainer with a modest degree of strike capability. Put it this way - if we had got the F-16 lease back a decade ago we would have been upgrading the Macchi's about now anyway to digital statndard and probably whacking in new engines for good mattter as part of a LEP. I understand that Lebanon is after the excess 3 MB-339A's of the UAE AF for a token sum. So that is nearly all the potential state buyers goneburgers other than Peru or Zimbabwee. Likely buyers - willing selliers? Tui! As a business proposition for air agressor work like what TAS dream about, then the L-39 would be a better bet than taking up our Macchi's in their current fitout. In this time of defence spending restraint is the market for outsourced AGT as big as it was 7 or 8 years ago? Would the merchant financing be their anyway? In my view that another Tui moment. Ironically - if the Government does indeed scrap the Macchi's it will have to find a very large sum to buy advanced trainers. PC-9M's and Super Tucano's are not cheap and in my view they seem to be the most likely canidates if we are going to shell out for something that can do advanced training as well as workup the land and maritime blokes to s sembalance of fight fitness. In fact 10 of them would be twice the cost of a Macchi upgrade. |
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Post by oldnavy on Sept 29, 2010 23:11:55 GMT 12
Dave, there's a thought! My only negative comment would be like magnetic variation, East is least/West is best. I reckon your Macchis can be made good, and they will be more effective in the long run. L39s are really quite small, not very fast, and made in a former Eastern Bloc country. Having said that, they are a jet and they can carry weapons, so they are a better option than the present fleet of RNZAF fighter-like aircraft! ;D
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Post by kiwiscanfly on Sept 30, 2010 0:32:59 GMT 12
It is a hard question to answer......... restore the Macchi's of but Tuccanos or PC-21's?? both have their pro's and con's. what I am surprised about is that we are nearly into October when they say they will release the white paper but I have not heard of any exact date or any other recent official info on the topic of the review!!
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Post by Dave Homewood on Sept 30, 2010 7:56:40 GMT 12
The Government is clearly waiting for you lot to decide on which aircraft we need before proceeding with releasing the plan.
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;D
