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Post by luke6745 on Jan 16, 2011 20:44:11 GMT 12
Luke, it depends how many times it turns back to Devonport with engine problems. ;D |
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jan 16, 2011 20:54:26 GMT 12
Good debate is based on discussing views that can be backed up with facts to support your argument. Just because you enjoyed a flight on Air New Zealand does not mean you have any idea of what No. 40 Squadron does on its VIP and other transport roles, and the reasons why the RNZAF has a VIP transport capability. When people have made an attempt to inform you of these reasons you have not bothered to take any of it onboard. Good debate involves learning from others, accepting other views, or challenging them using your knowledge if need be. But you have come on here with a view which to most seems uninformed, biased and jaded. You have shown no willingness to listen to people who are actually in the military and know more about the topic than you ever will.
And when you say "no one here has any say what so ever and never will" - do you actually know that? Many senior currently-serving officers read this forum. Many many people who read the forum are serving in the RNZAF right now. Some of them actually serve of No. 40 Squadron and fly the Boeings as a matter of fact, and your statements come across as utterly disrespectful to those who do a very fine job on a limited budget.
You have made your views clear, we don't agree with them, and enough is enough. Drop the subject and move on.
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Post by phil on Jan 16, 2011 20:59:08 GMT 12
Why did we buy Canterbury?
Why don't you double away and research that, I seem to have left my teaspoon somewhere else.
It doesn't spend all it's time tied up either, perhaps something else you could take the time to educate yourself about.
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Post by smithy on Feb 4, 2011 0:56:16 GMT 12
Personally I've been enjoying the debate and issues raised in this thread, some really good points and counterpoints which have been sounded.
I was in truth disappointed with the Review and thought it fell short of what NZ needs, as I imagine many here did.
I'm not in the air force so maybe my wants are unrealistic and logistically unachievable but several things which I would have liked to have seen were:
If the Macchis are still able to be supported and operated operationally, I would have liked to have seen 14 Sqn reformed and utilised as an advanced training unit and also for army and naval cooperation exercises.
However I think if this were to happen it would be highly strengthened if the govt nutted out an agreement with the Oz govt and RAAF to have a small number of places available (1 or 2 per year?) for transfer from 14 Sqn to operational training with a FA-18 squadron.
Additionally I think it would be highly useful for another deal to see a RAAF sqn based in NZ for a few months in a year to operate in exercises with our Army and Navy. It would give such a sqn the opportunity to operate and practice in different climatic and geographic conditions and obviously would benefit our armed forces.
Oz is our closest ally and in this world where geopolitical alliances are becoming more important would strengthen our ties with our natural ally and provide a framework for even closer cooperation. If NZ is to go into conflict then it will be alongside Oz and I think ideas along those that I put forth make for greater cooperation, understanding and cross-working between our armed forces.
Also such an approach would mean that if there was a significant regional or global deterioration in security then we would at least have a framework to rebuild a fast jet combat capability if needed.
As I said I'm not an expert so my views may be unrealistic but I wanted to sound out some ideas which have been knocking around in my head.
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Post by strikemaster on Feb 4, 2011 15:03:20 GMT 12
I think you are right, but with nothing to offer up to the Aussies, I couldn't see them agreeing to it. NZ needs an air combat wing for more reasons than just defence. I think it was the Skyhawk thread that had mention that the Oz govt didn't want to see the A4's grounded.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Feb 4, 2011 15:45:02 GMT 12
Could a Flight of Macchis do the same role that the A-4K's did at Nowra?
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Post by strikemaster on Feb 4, 2011 16:52:29 GMT 12
I'd bet they could.
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Post by skyhawkdon on Feb 4, 2011 18:30:52 GMT 12
No the Macchi couldn't do the same job the A-4 did at Nowra. The Macchi has no radar, radar warning system or countermeasures dispensing system. To do the fleet support role properly you need all these, plus a lot more speed and range than the Macchi has. Even the RAAF Hawk that was purchased in part to do the fleet support role can't do it as well as the A-4s did. An in-house air-to-air refuelling capability also gave the A-4 unique operational flexibility. Not many people know that 2 Sqn Skyhawks flying out of Nowra and using buddy air-to-air refuelling attacked RAN warships in NZ waters and then flew back to Nowra - they caught the RAN ships totally off guard because they considered themselves to be "out of range" of 2 Sqn! Oh how we proved them wrong on that and plenty of other occasions!
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Post by strikemaster on Feb 4, 2011 21:47:07 GMT 12
Refuelling from tanks on other A4's? Man that would be hair raising. I forget just how much was put into Kahu. Brains beats Brawn.....  |
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Post by Officer Crabtree on Feb 4, 2011 22:17:14 GMT 12
The problem is, NZ is apparantly a pacifist country. So the govornment won't spend money that would be useful. I am really considering joining the RAF when I'm 17 as there maybe no RNZAF left.
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Post by mumbles on Feb 4, 2011 22:27:58 GMT 12
Refuelling from tanks on other A4's? Man that would be hair raising. I forget just how much was put into Kahu. Brains beats Brawn..... More of a general A-4 thing than a specifically Kahu thing. The buddy pod (D-704) was developed by Douglas for the US Navy I believe, and predated the RNZAF use by some time. Handy capability to have. |
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Post by Officer Crabtree on Feb 4, 2011 22:48:52 GMT 12
Forget this-NZ has lost me to England. I want modern planes-thats not going to be here by 2016.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Feb 4, 2011 23:18:46 GMT 12
Don't get too hopeful Jasper, the RAF is demobbing squadrons and staff more rapidly than we are and may not be flying much at all by 2016. They may not be taking foreign nationals by then as their won't be enough places for their own countrymen and women.
You might be better off joining the RAAF.
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Post by smithy on Feb 4, 2011 23:57:14 GMT 12
I'm not sure the figures are available or even collated but it would be VERY interesting to know how many Kiwis have joined the RAAF and RAF since 2001, and I don't mean those who transferred to other air forces from the Strike Wing.
There's no doubt that fighters/combat aircraft are a big drawcard to joining an air force and it would be interesting to know just how many Kiwis have made the move overseas to sign up to follow their dream of flying or working on combat aircraft and specifically fast jets.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Feb 5, 2011 0:40:42 GMT 12
No-one has a "wish" or "desire" to work on fighter jets as groundcrew do they? I thought they were all the rejects from the PERSEL course who were not selected to be aircrew but were instead skillfully guided by the recruiters into the groundcrew roles with the promise that once you're in the Air Force you have a higher chance of remustering to pilot (which is of course one of their many fork-tongued lies). That's how it was when I was in anyway. I think it was 13 or 14 of the 16 people in my GSTS dorm had applied to be a pilot and missed out. I was one who hadn't bothered and went straight for the best trade.
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Post by smithy on Feb 5, 2011 0:48:18 GMT 12
Of course you're right Dave. I should have said, "flying combat aircraft and specifically fast jets".
I've had a couple of whiskies, well that's my excuse.
Still it would be interesting to know how many Kiwis have left the country to join the RAF and RAAF since 2001.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Feb 5, 2011 1:04:26 GMT 12
You must be drunk if you think I'm right ;D
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Post by smithy on Feb 5, 2011 1:50:03 GMT 12
You must be drunk if you think I'm right ;D  Anything is possible. I don't even know which way is right ;D |
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Post by Calum on Feb 5, 2011 10:21:34 GMT 12
Don't get too hopeful Jasper, the RAF is demobbing squadrons and staff more rapidly than we are and may not be flying much at all by 2016. They may not be taking foreign nationals by then as their won't be enough places for their own countrymen and women. You might be better off joining the RAAF. Despite the cuts the RAF will remain reasonably potent. But your advice on the RAAF is spot on. Knowing what I know now I would join the ADF over the NZDF if I had my time again (despite all the Australians it contains ;D) |
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Post by nige on Mar 19, 2011 12:15:05 GMT 12
Linton, Ohakea staff off to Upper Hutt in cost driveLast updated 12:00 19/03/2011 Thirty-nine Defence Force staff from Linton and Ohakea military bases are on the move to a new Upper Hutt centre, part of the Defence Force's drive to cut costs. The centre in Upper Hutt's Main St will be used for administrative tasks and payroll, and will house 110 employees when it opens in mid-July. In November, the Government released its White Paper, outlining ways the Defence Force could cut costs by consolidating its services. Among the ideas was merging Ohakea and Linton. The announcement to send personnel to Upper Hutt is one of the first physical moves to be made, based on the White Paper. Linton Military Camp spokesman Paul Stein could not confirm when the Manawatu staff would be moving to Upper Hutt but said none had lost their jobs. "The effect on the overall population of Linton is going to be minor," he said. "It's just a relocation and part of an ongoing phase. There will be some people that will look at the change and have their view on it. But this is a posting, and in terms of the job, that's what people in the navy, air force and army do." About 50 people work in the human resources section at Linton, meaning about half would be sent to Upper Hutt. Mr Stein was unable to say whether remaining staff would eventually move to Upper Hutt. Defence Force acting general manager of organisational support Peter Thomas earlier said the Upper Hutt centre would make human resources more "streamlined" and "efficient". "Historically, Defence Force facilities and resources have been located inside a military base in a remote location," he said "But here we are centralising our back-office functions and locating them closer to amenities and making it a more attractive workplace." Human resources might be moving from the region but some Defence Force educators would soon be based in Manawatu. The Wellington-based Training and Education Directorate would move to Massey University's Hokowhitu Campus in mid-May. Forty-three staff from Wellington and Manawatu will work at the facility, which includes shooting, driving and explosives training. The Hokowhitu campus was chosen over Linton because some of its facilities, including lecture theatres, were not available at the base, Mr Stein said. www.stuff.co.nz/manawatu-standard/news/4787687/Linton-Ohakea-staff-off-to-Upper-Hutt-in-cost-drive
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