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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2022 17:35:27 GMT 12
I keep hearing the Gripen would be a nice choice. I approve purely based on looks, it's a neat machine!
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Post by mcmaster on Jun 17, 2022 19:23:28 GMT 12
I keep hearing the Gripen would be a nice choice. I approve purely based on looks, it's a neat machine! Strange, I'm hearing the Rafale has front running Zac and its an even better looker - 2 donks too  |
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Post by kiwirob on Jun 17, 2022 22:26:10 GMT 12
They might buy all the nice toys but they have a problem where they don't always buy the maintenance package to keep everything operational. It will be interesting to see what the Norwegian govt do now that there is a potential threat, will they up defense spending or not? They already have since the outbreak of the Russian invasion of Ukraine, partly to cover the large amount of ordnance being sent to Ukraine and partly to ensure the mobility of current assets in Norway. "Maintenance packages" are completely covered in all services. The only areas where they are not are with equipment which is nearing its expiration date - just like what was done with the F-16s over the last 4 to 5 years due to the F-35 replacement programme. The extra 3.5 BNOK in funding isn't going to make a lot of difference, most of that goes into keeping one of the two airbases that were scheduled for closure open. Some new toys that they to increase number on, they're replacing 6 subs with 4, 6 P3's with 5 P8's, no replacement frigate. |
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Post by smithy on Jun 18, 2022 13:03:50 GMT 12
The extra 3.5 BNOK in funding isn't going to make a lot of difference, most of that goes into keeping one of the two airbases that were scheduled for closure open. Well BAB hasn't been kept open as a fighter base (one of the two you mention) since the retirement of the F-16s with 331 and after March. Only 330 is using it now so you're not correct. Apart from a staging base it's tasking has completely changed. Part of this is also due to Bodø Kommune having decided to move the airport (and accompanying former airbase infrastructure away from Vestbyen). Also your figures of extra funding are incorrect based on the latest upgraded defence funding from Regjeringen over the last month. But also you're assumption that you made in your initial post about lacking "maintenance package to keep everything operational" is fairly silly. Reading stuff on the internet from the other side of the world whilst not actually living in a country is never a good basis for making out you have the best understanding of what is going on, and especially if you don't understand the language that is being used by the primary sources (like the state and local governments, and the local military bodies). Sorry if you take this the wrong way but I live in Norway. You live in NZ. You might not like me saying this, but I think I have a slightly better understanding of what is going on here than you. By the same token, I haven't lived back home in NZ since 2007 so I would never begin to presume I would have a complete grasp of what's going on back home. |
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Post by richard1098 on Jun 20, 2022 13:31:06 GMT 12
The extra 3.5 BNOK in funding isn't going to make a lot of difference, most of that goes into keeping one of the two airbases that were scheduled for closure open. Well BAB hasn't been kept open as a fighter base (one of the two you mention) since the retirement of the F-16s with 331 and after March. Only 330 is using it now so you're not correct. Apart from a staging base it's tasking has completely changed. Part of this is also due to Bodø Kommune having decided to move the airport (and accompanying former airbase infrastructure away from Vestbyen). Also your figures of extra funding are incorrect based on the latest upgraded defence funding from Regjeringen over the last month. But also you're assumption that you made in your initial post about lacking "maintenance package to keep everything operational" is fairly silly.Reading stuff on the internet from the other side of the world whilst not actually living in a country is never a good basis for making out you have the best understanding of what is going on, and especially if you don't understand the language that is being used by the primary sources (like the state and local governments, and the local military bodies). Sorry if you take this the wrong way but I live in Norway. You live in NZ. You might not like me saying this, but I think I have a slightly better understanding of what is going on here than you. By the same token, I haven't lived back home in NZ since 2007 so I would never begin to presume I would have a complete grasp of what's going on back home. Exactly. The ADF operates some pretty sophicated aircraft, including being the launch customer for the E-7 and KC-30. After fifteen years of operating both NH90 and Blackhawk/Seahawk in parallel, it has decided to walk away from the Euro helo. That would have been a very well informed decision. Also, Sweden purchased Blackhawks to fill the gap caused by delayed NH90 deliveries, and over a decade later is still using them. |
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Post by kiwirob on Jun 21, 2022 2:40:16 GMT 12
The extra 3.5 BNOK in funding isn't going to make a lot of difference, most of that goes into keeping one of the two airbases that were scheduled for closure open. Well BAB hasn't been kept open as a fighter base (one of the two you mention) since the retirement of the F-16s with 331 and after March. Only 330 is using it now so you're not correct. Apart from a staging base it's tasking has completely changed. Part of this is also due to Bodø Kommune having decided to move the airport (and accompanying former airbase infrastructure away from Vestbyen). Also your figures of extra funding are incorrect based on the latest upgraded defence funding from Regjeringen over the last month. But also you're assumption that you made in your initial post about lacking "maintenance package to keep everything operational" is fairly silly. Reading stuff on the internet from the other side of the world whilst not actually living in a country is never a good basis for making out you have the best understanding of what is going on, and especially if you don't understand the language that is being used by the primary sources (like the state and local governments, and the local military bodies). Sorry if you take this the wrong way but I live in Norway. You live in NZ. You might not like me saying this, but I think I have a slightly better understanding of what is going on here than you. By the same token, I haven't lived back home in NZ since 2007 so I would never begin to presume I would have a complete grasp of what's going on back home. I've been living in Norway since 2006. Bodø Airport isn't relocating out of the city as you're alluding to, it's moving sideways closer to the sea. Spending billions of Nok to move an airport about 500m sideways is an incredible waste of money IMO and typically Norwegian. I got my information about the defense spending increase from Regjeringen www.regjeringen.no/en/aktuelt/regjeringen-med-strakstiltak-for-a-styrke-forsvaret/id2904668/I received my information about the Norwegian govt underfunding maintenance from my brother in law who is in the Norwegian army and my neighbour who works Bergen Group. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2022 8:13:28 GMT 12
Strange, I'm hearing the Rafale has front running Zac and its an even better looker - 2 donks too It's still a delta canard so it has my vote!  |
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Post by smithy on Jun 21, 2022 9:29:26 GMT 12
I've been living in Norway since 2006. Bodø Airport isn't relocating out of the city as you're alluding to, it's moving sideways closer to the sea. Spending billions of Nok to move an airport about 500m sideways is an incredible waste of money IMO and typically Norwegian. I got my information about the defense spending increase from Regjeringen www.regjeringen.no/en/aktuelt/regjeringen-med-strakstiltak-for-a-styrke-forsvaret/id2904668/I received my information about the Norwegian govt underfunding maintenance from my brother in law who is in the Norwegian army and my neighbour who works Bergen Group. I never said Bodø was relocating. I said it was moving due to Bodø Kommune wanting to move the proximity away from Vestbyen - check my last post. As an airbase it's not operating as before. The current figures from Regjeringen are not for 3.5 BNOK as you quoted. BTW you're not the only one with a relative in the military here or people working in these issues, my step brother-in-law is a colonel in the Air Force and I have another who works for Kongsberg Våpenfabrikk. |
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Post by kiwirob on Jun 21, 2022 16:31:02 GMT 12
I've been living in Norway since 2006. Bodø Airport isn't relocating out of the city as you're alluding to, it's moving sideways closer to the sea. Spending billions of Nok to move an airport about 500m sideways is an incredible waste of money IMO and typically Norwegian. I got my information about the defense spending increase from Regjeringen www.regjeringen.no/en/aktuelt/regjeringen-med-strakstiltak-for-a-styrke-forsvaret/id2904668/I received my information about the Norwegian govt underfunding maintenance from my brother in law who is in the Norwegian army and my neighbour who works Bergen Group. I never said Bodø was relocating. I said it was moving due to Bodø Kommune wanting to move the proximity away from Vestbyen - check my last post. As an airbase it's not operating as before. The current figures from Regjeringen are not for 3.5 BNOK as you quoted. BTW you're not the only one with a relative in the military here or people working in these issues, my step brother-in-law is a colonel in the Air Force and I have another who works for Kongsberg Våpenfabrikk. Good for you. |
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Post by mcmaster on Jun 21, 2022 17:22:39 GMT 12
Norway got a modified F-35A with a drag chute for icy runways I believe. Likely explains why there was talk they paid a fair bit more than others per unit. Having said that they were an early adopter given the age of their F16 fleet.
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Post by smithy on Jun 21, 2022 18:55:01 GMT 12
I never said Bodø was relocating. I said it was moving due to Bodø Kommune wanting to move the proximity away from Vestbyen - check my last post. As an airbase it's not operating as before. The current figures from Regjeringen are not for 3.5 BNOK as you quoted. BTW you're not the only one with a relative in the military here or people working in these issues, my step brother-in-law is a colonel in the Air Force and I have another who works for Kongsberg Våpenfabrikk. Good for you. Du også. Perhaps we should let this thread be about the RNZAF and their "ideal fighter aircraft" rather than an argument about the state of the Norwegian military. BTW (and I seriously mean this) if you are ever up in Nordland send me a PM as I am more than happy to buy you a beer and have a chinwag with another expat. |
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jun 21, 2022 21:13:12 GMT 12
Perhaps we should let this thread be about the RNZAF and their "ideal fighter aircraft" Yes, back to the discussion about the P-40N vs Corsair vs Mosquito... |
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Post by Chelsea57986 on Jun 22, 2022 7:31:47 GMT 12
Perhaps we should let this thread be about the RNZAF and their "ideal fighter aircraft" Yes, back to the discussion about the P-40N vs Corsair vs Mosquito... I know the RNZAF never flew them but I reckon the ideal aircraft can’t be anything except the Supermarine Spitfire. |
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Post by smithy on Jun 22, 2022 8:33:35 GMT 12
Yes, back to the discussion about the P-40N vs Corsair vs Mosquito... I know the RNZAF never flew them but I reckon the ideal aircraft can’t be anything except the Supermarine Spitfire. Well you can argue that they did. Whilst under RAF administration and operational command, 485 was technically an RNZAF squadron. |
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jun 22, 2022 8:36:54 GMT 12
The Spitfire would not be ideal for New Zealand conditions due to its short range. That is where the P-40 had a massive advantage, and the Corsair even more so. The two US-built fighters were more rugged too.
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Post by davidd on Jun 22, 2022 10:25:37 GMT 12
New Zealand government did request whole squadrons of fighters in early 1942 (including all air and ground crew), but Brit government replied that they needed all their home-built aircraft (including fighters) for their own defence and Empire obligations. However they thoughtfully passed on our needs to the American government to consider, and within about 2 or 3 months, several shipments of P-40Es (Kittyhawks) were on the water, headed for NZ. And that is how it all started. Note, at this time, New Zealand had no lend-Lease arrangements with the USA government, but Britain did; New Zealand was not even in an Allied Command at this juncture, so it was left to the British Govt to allocate all such Lend-Lease (American-built) assets to her Dominions, colonies and any other scraps of territories over the seas as she saw fit.
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Post by smithy on Jun 22, 2022 11:21:17 GMT 12
The Spitfire would not be ideal for New Zealand conditions due to its short range. That is where the P-40 had a massive advantage, and the Corsair even more so. The two US-built fighters were more rugged too. Dave is spot on there, the Spit was designed as a short range interceptor and with European distances in mind, not for the long distances of the Pacific. As well as that the Corsair was arguably better from an engine standpoint for operating in more tropical climes due to its radial engine which facilitated better cooling than an inline engine like the Spit or P-40. |
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Post by tbf2504 on Jun 22, 2022 11:40:04 GMT 12
Apart from the limitations of the Spitfire in range, you also have to consider that the RNZAF in the SWPA was operating under the command and logistics support from the USN, especially from late 1943 onwards. Having and orphan
fighter aircraft in theatre with a supply chain going all the way back to Britain would have been a bad move!
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Post by machina on Jun 23, 2022 19:30:02 GMT 12
Okay, so, the Spit is out due to range…F-18 Block III?
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Post by Antonio on Jun 24, 2022 10:10:13 GMT 12
Me thinks the only fighters we will see are Joseph Parker, Israel Adesanya, Dan Hooker et al  |
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