|
Post by Deleted on May 8, 2012 21:38:45 GMT 12
Maybe we could just round up some Dak's? ;D
|
|
|
Post by ngatimozart on May 8, 2012 21:39:29 GMT 12
C130J-30 and C27 buy ? Would that be the C27 for twin engine training plus tactical work. Bit of an overkill for training and the C130J-30 for the same tactical work we do now. Sounds unlikely and a bit stupid. Would others who have worked on or flown in C130's agree that at times the cargo lifted has been well under sized for the C130 and other times "wish we had a bigger aircraft" We need some slightly smaller for internal / pacific island work such as C27 or C295 plus a strategic airlifter such as a A400, which could also be used for internal or pacific island work if the need arose. Not 100% sure on what the pax numbers are for the A400, but pretty sure most people would prefer to travel on something such as the B757 if going to the states or Europe etc Don't think the C27J would be used for MEPT with the King Air being used, hopefully the 350 in a EEZ MPA role. Whilst the C130 J / J-30 and C27J combo may not be ideal what has to be taken into account is who will make the decisions and: At the end of the day the following people will make the real decision (if they are still around to do so in 2015) - Key and Joyce (K2) primarily, with the PM's CoS Wayne Eagleson (K3), Bill English and Treasury, the head of ODESC, the DefMin, and the CDF (in order of current influence).I have copied this from another place I lurk and the person who wrote it is quite authorative. So whether we like it or not the Chief of Air Force and lesser beings who actually are the end users don't get a lot of say. EDIT: Addition: The US House Armed Services Committee has denied the USAF the ability to use any money to retire or divest, or prepare to divest or retire the C27J from service in 2013. So it looks like the USAF political manouvering to kill the program originally initiated by the US Army has come back to bite them in the arse. Good thing.
|
|
|
Post by beagle on May 8, 2012 22:27:12 GMT 12
So the biggest thing is this whole project will be money. How much will we have to spend.
Does it work like : CDF to Def Min, we would like 5 A400's and 5 C295's. Cost 3Billion Def Min to ODESC. They want this, (as above) but we could get away with 3 A400 / 5 C295. 2billion ODESC to Treasury. The Air Force would like 3 of these and 5 of these but the dollar has just dropped again and we have 350 army people ready to get out, so 5 x C295s might just do. Bill to John, Those Air Chatams Convairs, go make them an offer and buy some matt green/grey paint.
|
|
|
Post by beagle on May 8, 2012 22:38:12 GMT 12
Would an A400 be able to take off full weight at WP and OH. I am presuming they would. OH longer then WP ?
|
|
|
Post by Dave Homewood on May 8, 2012 22:50:32 GMT 12
I can see this will another of those endless, pointless "We should get this..." threads for the next eight years.
|
|
|
Post by lesterpk on May 9, 2012 1:50:03 GMT 12
Yeah Dave, but wait until we start deciding the colour schemes as well :-)
|
|
|
Post by Calum on May 9, 2012 9:35:17 GMT 12
I can see this will another of those endless, pointless "We should get this..." threads for the next eight years. Well this is a discussion forum and we are engaged in a discussion so you could argue that this is the exact point of this board.
|
|
|
Post by Dave Homewood on May 9, 2012 10:12:23 GMT 12
Sure, I have nothing against it in the slightest. But people can speculate till they're blue in the face and it won't make any difference.
|
|
|
Post by Naki on May 9, 2012 11:09:51 GMT 12
Yeah Dave, but wait until we start deciding the colour schemes as well :-) Yeah I fancy the Herc scheme from the 60/70s Wonder if the Caribou replacement got slashed in yesterdays Aussie budget?
|
|
|
Post by Andy Wright on May 9, 2012 13:31:16 GMT 12
Not sure about Caribou replacement being slashed. More likely delayed like some of the other big ticket items - self-propeeled guns etc.
|
|
|
Post by ngatimozart on May 9, 2012 14:42:38 GMT 12
The ADF SP guns are history and have been for a bit. the money from them is to be utilised for other purposes within the ADF. Read my comments about the Caribou above. I've shortened it to bou. Hereare two articles discussing it, both by a respected authority. australianaviation.com.au/2012/03/opinion-caribou-replacement-to-be-deferred/ australianaviation.com.au/2012/03/opinion-%E2%80%93-clarifying-the-c-27j-fms-case/ And an update on the USAF C27J which I posted last night. This the paragraph from the article: 'Under Air Force provisions, the committee denied the service the ability to use any money in 2013 “to divest or retire, or prepare to divest or retire,” C-27J aircraft. A series of reporting requirements after 2013 would need to be met before the aircraft could be disposed of, including an affordable spending analysis for the plane’s operation by the Air National Guard.' (http://www.defensenews.com/article/20120507/DEFREG02/305070011/HASC-Adds-2-8-Billion-Procurement-Request?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE) So this would at present make the ADF purchase more attractive under FMS. But the Australian Government has been down this track at least once in last 15 years and cancelled purchase at last minute.
|
|
|
Post by meo4 on May 9, 2012 16:04:03 GMT 12
There's the latest 2035 capability branch document out basically there will be no increase in defence budget for next decade. Focussing on the JATF majority of logistical transport will fall on the Canterbury and future Endevour. So I hopefully the strategic airlift tactical transport is retained or enhanced prob c130J or C295 but with financial constraints and focus on JATF will out rule larger A400M C17.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on May 9, 2012 17:17:54 GMT 12
Would the C-295 really be looked at? I mean that's going in a backwards step. If the NH90 transport capability is needed, than the C-295 isn't an option is it. And I think that the RNZAF will look at the A400M, it may be untested and expensive, but does NH90 ring any bells? The NH90 probably was probably one of the most expensive options out there, but yet they still ordered it. The C-130J would just be a side step (and a little up as well) in my opinion.
|
|
|
Post by Calum on May 9, 2012 17:38:38 GMT 12
Wonder if the Caribou replacement got slashed in yesterdays Aussie budget? nope, Remaining C-130H feet to go. Air 8000 Battlefield Airlifter remains alive
|
|
|
Post by beagle on May 9, 2012 18:38:59 GMT 12
They have 4 main feet and 2 nose feet
|
|
|
Post by Dave Homewood on May 9, 2012 18:49:15 GMT 12
Belly landings from here on in then Beagle?
|
|
|
Post by ngatimozart on May 9, 2012 22:00:46 GMT 12
Would the C-295 really be looked at? I mean that's going in a backwards step. If the NH90 transport capability is needed, than the C-295 isn't an option is it. And I think that the RNZAF will look at the A400M, it may be untested and expensive, but does NH90 ring any bells? The NH90 probably was probably one of the most expensive options out there, but yet they still ordered it. The C-130J would just be a side step (and a little up as well) in my opinion. The C295 would be looked at as combo with the A400 and as I said on earlier post, I think Airbus Military would really push that deal and maybe the NZG could screw the price down a bit. But there are two flies in that ointment in that the NZG would have to make decision sooner rather than later because the thought is that Airbus Military doesn't have a lot of orders on the C295 production line. With regard to the NH90, it was bought to meet a need and not many other helos out there that meet requirement. It is a Tactical Transport Helo capable of carrying up to max 20 troops. UH60 cannot do that. Maybe the EH101 but that is old technology now. We get brand new technology and we don't have to pay for the fixes. That is the manufacturers responsibility. What has to be decided is whether or not NZDF can justify the A400 with it's currently very high purchase cost and it not having achieved IOC yet with any Air Force. It has just got restricted European civil certification. Would it be better for the NZDF say to purchase two C17s and operate them in conjunction with the RAAF or when needed hire a RAAF or USAF C17?
|
|
|
Post by Naki on May 10, 2012 13:47:06 GMT 12
|
|
|
Post by beagle on May 10, 2012 14:11:28 GMT 12
Do I see some B350's coming from the RAAF coming our way
|
|
|
Post by meo4 on May 10, 2012 14:49:15 GMT 12
I think its the only the A400M and C130J are on the cards at the moment still early days, it will all come down to cost , low risk , capability customer requirements and future support .
|
|