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Post by delticman on Mar 17, 2019 18:05:19 GMT 12
Forgiveness is contingent on repentance in my opinion. My neighbour was shot in the leg. His father was killed. Too close to home (but couldn't be farther from it...) My thoughts are with you and your neighbour at this time. Sadly as the victims names come to notice, everyone in Christchurch will have a connection with a victim of this terrible event.
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Post by vultee43 on Mar 17, 2019 19:29:13 GMT 12
Hi 129 "Banning fixes nothing". Following the Port Arthur massacre in Tasmania the Australian government embarked upon a gun buy-back program.The result was a significant reduction in gun related deaths and murders. Very true. It has worked brilliantly in Tasmanian where I now live. But there are elements that will also find ways to bring these weapons in. The Christchurch murders have eerie similarities to the Port Arthur tragedy. I only hope our communities will band together to call out these evil bastards.
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Post by vultee43 on Mar 17, 2019 19:53:00 GMT 12
I believe that within the penitentiary system he may be dealt a suffering blow from other incarcerated inmates. Lets hope he suffers as there is not enough punishment for planning over 18 months this heinous act of cowardice and brutal aggression where 49 people so far have been slaughtered. Karma will define his fate!! I know this is a radical negative view and as a Christian I should show compassion and forgiveness but I'm sorry to say I cannot fogive this act of terrorism on our peaceful land. When this non human is incarcerated, he will more than likely be in protective or isolated custody like Martin Bryant in Hobart. Certainly cost the taxpayer more than an average prisoner. Seeing Australia sends New Zealanders back home after being convicted maybe you should do the same.
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Post by isc on Mar 17, 2019 20:06:05 GMT 12
The figure is now 50 persons dead. isc
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Post by Dave Homewood on Mar 17, 2019 20:48:04 GMT 12
When this non human is incarcerated, he will more than likely be in protective or isolated custody like Martin Bryant in Hobart. Certainly cost the taxpayer more than an average prisoner. Seeing Australia sends New Zealanders back home after being convicted maybe you should do the same. The NZ Government has already been exploring the deportation options to send him to an Aussie prison. When you talk about the cost to the taxpayers, imagine the cost of the emergency response over the past three days with armed police all over the country called in to work and put on on high alert, and the ambulance services, the hospital staff who have coped with 50 victims and also their regular hospital patients, and the specialist investigators flown in from all over NZ and from Aussie, etc. The PM said today that anyone who dies in New Zealand from murder or manslaughter, whether NZ Citizen or not, is entitled to apply to ACC for a $10,000 grant to pay for funeral costs. This is fair enough of course, but you times that by fifty dead and you get $500,000 for that alone. Then there is the ACC payments to the living 50 victims who will need surgery, hospitalisation, rehabilitation, and care for a very long time. That ACC bill will be a LOT more than the funeral bill. You then calculate the costs of having an entire city come to a halt on a trading day, the airport closed, businesses locked down, movement stopped. That is another massive amount of money lost that may never be regained. There are also going to be many family businesses who have lost key staff in this killing spree, both dead and wounded - how will they cope? Plus there will be a loss of production from other traumatised people who're unable to cope, not just the victims and families but those who were nearby, the witnesses. Then there is the cost of making new laws, implementing new security measures at airports and other places, and all that is yet to come for the government to sort out from this mess. So already in an instant this prick has cost New Zealand millions and millions of dollars. And this will continue. His trial is going to be horrendous. One sick individual carrying out his warped fantasy has repercussions that will keep on rippling for a long, long time on the nation.
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Post by madmac on Mar 17, 2019 20:52:52 GMT 12
Hi 129 "Banning fixes nothing". Following the Port Arthur massacre in Tasmania the Australian government embarked upon a gun buy-back program.The result was a significant reduction in gun related deaths and murders. Its not so simple there was a gun crime spike afterwards for several years, plus major guns for drugs trade to PNG where they likely kill more than if they stayed in oz.
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Post by richard1098 on Mar 17, 2019 21:20:36 GMT 12
Hi 129 "Banning fixes nothing". Following the Port Arthur massacre in Tasmania the Australian government embarked upon a gun buy-back program.The result was a significant reduction in gun related deaths and murders. Its not so simple there was a gun crime spike afterwards for several years, plus major guns for drugs trade to PNG where they likely kill more than if they stayed in oz. What's the evidence for that? There certainly have been no Port Arthur style massacres since, so the changes did have the impact that was intended.
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Post by delticman on Mar 17, 2019 21:55:47 GMT 12
When this non human is incarcerated, he will more than likely be in protective or isolated custody like Martin Bryant in Hobart. Certainly cost the taxpayer more than an average prisoner. Seeing Australia sends New Zealanders back home after being convicted maybe you should do the same. The NZ Government has already been exploring the deportation options to send him to an Aussie prison. When you talk about the cost to the taxpayers, imagine the cost of the emergency response over the past three days with armed police all over the country called in to work and put on on high alert, and the ambulance services, the hospital staff who have coped with 50 victims and also their regular hospital patients, and the specialist investigators flown in from all over NZ and from Aussie, etc. The PM said today that anyone who dies in New Zealand from murder or manslaughter, whether NZ Citizen or not, is entitled to apply to ACC for a $10,000 grant to pay for funeral costs. This is fair enough of course, but you times that by fifty dead and you get $500,000 for that alone. Then there is the ACC payments to the living 50 victims who will need surgery, hospitalisation, rehabilitation, and care for a very long time. That ACC bill will be a LOT more than the funeral bill. You then calculate the costs of having an entire city come to a halt on a trading day, the airport closed, businesses locked down, movement stopped. That is another massive amount of money lost that may never be regained. There are also going to be many family businesses who have lost key staff in this killing spree, both dead and wounded - how will they cope? Plus there will be a loss of production from other traumatised people who're unable to cope, not just the victims and families but those who were nearby, the witnesses. Then there is the cost of making new laws, implementing new security measures at airports and other places, and all that is yet to come for the government to sort out from this mess. So already in an instant this prick has cost New Zealand millions and millions of dollars. And this will continue. His trial is going to be horrendous. One sick individual carrying out his warped fantasy has repercussions that will keep on rippling for a long, long time on the nation. You forgot one. Most of the victims are men. Their wives will be entitled to a widow's pension, I'm sure.
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Post by planecrazy on Mar 18, 2019 6:02:45 GMT 12
Like many I find myself both shocked and saddened by these events. I grew up in Christchurch and as a boy at school remember how I felt during the Erebus disaster, I had the same thoughts at the time of the earthquake and now again firstly shock then sadness over this tragedy.
As kids we rode our bikes from the Waimac to the hills, we would often ride over to Wigram and watch the Vampires and remember the Harvards at night. I learn’t to surf at Brighton, Sumner and over the hill at Taylor’s Mistake. I learn’t to ski in the mountains across the plains, the area is just wonderful for all these things and obviously I hold these memories dear.
I have had a number of people from my faraway small community come up to me with their condolences. Like many we all from far off places send our thoughts and best wishes to the people of the Canterbury area and the rest of New Zealand.
I have a great book which is a treasured possession of mine, Old Christchurch, within there are a number of poems about the city, the following of my favourites. Perhaps a little harsh on the city, anyone who knows the area will understand it and it always makes me chuckle.
Land where men with brains of fog built a city upon a bog. Land of rain and storm and flood land of water, wind and mud
Where six days a week the gale laden thick with rain or hail. First from sou-west blows a piercer then veers nor-west and blows fiercer.
This is what I think of thee eden of the southern sea.
May the sun shine on the people of Christchurch our thoughts are with you all.
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Post by obiwan27 on Mar 18, 2019 13:58:33 GMT 12
This event occurred about 1 to 1.5km from my workplace. we were in lock down from about 2pm until 5:30pm or so. It was very unnerving, but our building was locked from public access and the stairwells and lifts were swipe card access only. One of our work colleagues from the Middle East, who was in Christchurch visiting family, was injured in one of the attacked mosques while worshiping with his family. They're in hospital recovering.
It does bring it all closer to home so to speak. We have two other staff who are Muslim. Fortunately they weren't available to go to Friday prayers on that day.
Several other staff have taken time off and a former Muslim colleague lost friends.
What we need at present is calm and cool heads to decide the way forward. I'm unconvinced that knee-jerk responses such as changes to firearms laws or banning 'hate speech would curtail future attacks. It does make people feel as though something is being done.
ISIS has already called for retaliation. In spite of local Muslim leaders and Imams telling their folks not to retaliate, there are already numerous people with ISIA/Jihadist sympathies in this country being monitored by the intelligence agencies.
Overseas attacks have been carried out using explosives, knives and vehicles - are we going to ban them too?
That seems like an ambulance at the bottom of the cliff approach.
In order to prevent future attacks we need to be better at screening people who want to migrate to this country. If the barbarians are already inside the gate, then we need to follow the Police advice - "If you see something, say something".
When a government of any political hue ignores concerns expressed by it's citizens on topics like national security and immigration, it creates a vacuum of unresolved concerns. These vacuums can be exploited and filled by extremists across the cultural spectrum. It seems the gunman traveled across Europe at a time when ISIS inspired attacks were on the rise. One set of extremists inspired another extremist.
We live in dangerous times, not a "benign defence environment" as a past PM once described.
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Post by baz62 on Mar 18, 2019 18:18:01 GMT 12
I see a young pilot trainee from the International Aviation Academy part of the Canterbury Aero Club, is one of the fallen. Here is a transcript of James Ford the CEO's speech to the academy: Ozair Kadir
As you can see, I’m accompanied here by a number of people who I will introduce shortly. Firstly, I want to express my sympathy to the families and friends of those of Ozair Kadir.
Ozair was tragically taken from us on Friday in this unprecedented situation in NZ. To the five other young men, who I’m not going to name here today, they have suffered a tremendous amount of shock and I want you to know that we as a country and an organisation will support you through this in the hope to keep your aviation dream a reality. I want to thank our staff.
I am extremely proud of the way you have reacted and conducted yourselves. You can be proud of the compassion you have shown and the unity as an organisation that makes us who we are.
To the Academy Board members here today, they stand here in support behind each and everyone one of you, from the staff to students, family and friends.
As you were aware on Friday, we activated a response by way of positively identifying everybody’s whereabouts. This allowed us to identify we had six of our students caught up in this tragedy. Our leadership group stepped up as they have before and managed to support the five young men that we had contact with. This has continued throughout the weekend.
The leadership group has been working tirelessly throughout the weekend communicating with the family, friends and students to do everything we can to provide an answer for the family. We have arranged for the family to have the support they need so that they can have their loved one returned home.
As a mark of respect, today we will be closed for operational flying, lectures and have postponed the exams. We will, however, have our doors open for you today and encourage you to talk to us and each other.
As the reality sets in for those directly affected and for those of you have been touched by this tragedy, I ask you to look after each other, as we know you will need a lot of support with your mental wellbeing. Talk with family and friends, as your lives have been changed forever and we want to support you in your adventure to continue your dream of becoming a commercial pilot.
Jeremy Ford CEO, IAANZ
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Post by vultee43 on Mar 18, 2019 20:18:57 GMT 12
Kudos to your PM and Parlimentary members. They are showing true leadership and courage. Not like our muppets across the ditch. At times I wonder why I left.
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Post by Mustang51 on Mar 19, 2019 6:44:51 GMT 12
When you vote for them all you do is encourage them. Unfortunately so-called "democracy" permits even fools to have their say no matter the consequences.
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Post by vultee43 on Mar 19, 2019 13:49:02 GMT 12
I agree. Fortunately the disgusting, xenophobic and inhuman comments made by the Australian Senator don't represent the unequivocal majority of us. He was only voted in with 19 VOTES and expelled from two ultra fringe parties since being elected, such is our dysfunctional system. Our self elected PM and hypocritical Opposition Leader are almost as bad. We can't get rid of this alt right redneck Senator but we seem to change PMs with alarming frequency. Either way enough of politics.
I truly hope in the coming weeks, months and years healing and harmony will find its way to the residents of Christchurch, the Islamic community and New Zealand as a whole. It will take time but only make you stronger and more unified.
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Post by mcmaster on Mar 19, 2019 18:02:09 GMT 12
Well as bad as Australian politics is, and its bad, at least we are not where the US is; and to a large degree the UK also. Western democracy is ripping itself apart. In the post war period the clear unified objective to create institutions that support peace, trade and prosperity. Now it seems many in politics want to rip it all down by extolling division. I agree its refreshing to see NZ talking sense and with humanity.
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Post by Mustang51 on Mar 20, 2019 15:03:24 GMT 12
Again another example of a politician utilizing a tragedy for his/her own benefit......I think the Turkish President has well and truly overstepped the mark
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Post by Dave Homewood on Mar 20, 2019 19:38:23 GMT 12
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Post by isc on Mar 20, 2019 22:43:48 GMT 12
Winston Peters is off to talk turkey in Turkey, but it is thought so far that it is campaign talk for coming elections. isc
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Post by baronbeeza on Mar 20, 2019 23:26:51 GMT 12
Very generous and I find almost unbelievable in light of went down in Jakarta in May 1998, events very raw for the Chinese still living there. Once again the media portrayed it as something completely different and downplaying the real numbers involved.
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Post by Mustang51 on Mar 21, 2019 11:41:14 GMT 12
I know that political discussion on this site is verboten however... from everything I have seen of your Prime Minister since these tragic events evolved last week but especially yesterday at the Cashmere High School, she has clearly carried herself magnificently with her sincerity, empathy and care clearly apparent. I cannot speak of her politics as I do not know them nor shall I try but she clearly represents what I believe and have found to be the essence of what it is to be a Kiwi. Many other politicians around the world could do themselves a favour in following her example
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