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Post by vs on Apr 20, 2012 11:30:29 GMT 12
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Post by Dave Homewood on Apr 20, 2012 11:54:27 GMT 12
Nice selection of shots vs!
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Post by vs on Apr 20, 2012 14:41:00 GMT 12
Managed to get in around 1300. Was surprised to see the NH90 display. Amazing how quiet such a big helicopter is.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2012 16:32:12 GMT 12
Good on you vs, some great photos! It would've been good to meet you. And I was surprised by the NH90, too.
Dave, when we arrived (just after 1200) there was noone at the gate. I had our tickets in hand, ready to go.
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Post by ErrolC on Apr 20, 2012 17:41:20 GMT 12
Good on you vs, some great photos! It would've been good to meet you. And I was surprised by the NH90, too. Dave, when we arrived (just after 1200) there was noone at the gate. I had our tickets in hand, ready to go. We were a bit earlier than Zac on the road from Wanganui, and arrived at the Base entry gate about 10:15. They asked (shouted) as we approached if we had tickets, and we were directed to the fast lane. I got the distinct feeling that we could have bluffed through, as nothing was actually inspected (and certainly not scanned). So I'm unsurprised that people that had been in a queue for two hours more than the hour plus we were, weren't asked for money. |
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Post by JW on Apr 20, 2012 18:06:12 GMT 12
Another factor these days is the population has a lot more stupid drivers and impatient w***ers on the road, which cannot help such a situation, as they all think they know better. I blame Playstation and Xbox, it's ruined their tiny minds. There were quite a losers few on the road that day. I remember seeing one vehicle jump way ahead of the queue and floored it down the opposite side of the road. |
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Post by nige on Apr 21, 2012 8:39:59 GMT 12
Here we go re the "latest" - Manawatu Standard headline "Air Force says traffice plan flawed" www.stuff.co.nz/manawatu-standard/6777911/Air-force-says-traffic-plan-flawedIntegrated Traffic Solutions was the company that was employed to do the planning. I also disagree with Freighter's assertion twice now that those that took it into their own hands to use alternative routes caused the problem. As evidenced by the media report interviews with the Air Force no one has ever stated that was the cause and the cause was something much greater than that simple claim, the problems were due to bad organisational planning. It looks to me like the problems were multiple, one example being that southern (Wellington) and eastern (PN/Hawkes Bay) traffic were all expected to converge in Sanson (which is a bottleneck) before turning left into Fagan Rd. (I'm pretty sure as a kid coming from Wellington to the 81 airshow we officially turned off well before Sanson into a back road such as Tangimoana Rd and then proceeded to a car park where the sports feilds are which are before the main western gate). If everyone stuck to SH1 and SH3 rather than use back roads the the queues there would have been longer when merging at Sanson (and there were other bottleneck spots prior such as where traffic from Feilding merged into SH3). The great thing about the Manawatu is there are plently of alternative roads and next time some thought should be used to using them for traffic coming from the south (Wellington), east (PN), Feilding and Hawkes Bay. Traffic from the north and west (Wanganui) were also backed up for miles and these travellers had their own entrance to Ohakea ie didn't merge with the southern and eastern traffic & associated short cut takers. I also noted something in my earlier post, which I couldn't explain, when the southen/eastern traffic on Speedy Rd (the official route) turned into Tangimoana Rd (the official route when past the intersection of the two) it should have in theory been a quick journey onto base in single file but for some reason traffic crawled & stop/started along here too. I'd say it had something to do with coming into one entrance on base for the parking. On the way home afterwards, once the cars leaving the carparks had merged traffic leaving base (Pukenui Rd) was still slow until they reached Tangimoana Rd and then accelerated to normal speeds. That didn't make any sense for it to be that way. On the way out then traffic would have followed the main official route (Tangi/Speedy/Fagan) to get to SH1 Sanson. Seeing again there were no official signposts a handful of cars including us stayed on Speedy Rd (rather than turn left into Fagan to await another bottleneck at Fagan/SH1/Sanson intersection) and proceeded to the intersection south of Sanson where it meets SH1 going south. Expecting heaps of cars travelling south back to Wellington and thinking we'd be stuck at this intersection I couldn't believe traffic heading south there was so light we crossed the SH1 intersection straight away into Penny Rd and eventually joined up with SH3 near Mt Stewart. So I think the problem was indeed due to the poorly planned official routes which caused bottlenecks, when greater use of alternative back roads could have been done. Plus the parking on base. |
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Post by Dave Homewood on Apr 21, 2012 8:58:27 GMT 12
One thing is for sure, this year's Air Force Airshow traffic jam has had around the same amount of, if not a tad more, complaints as the last (2009) Air Force Airshow traffic jam at Whenuapai, which was mainly caused by the Hobsonville bypass motorway system then under construction. Most people have forgotten that now though. I think it's time to move on from this year's great traffic debate too.
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Post by mumbles on Apr 21, 2012 11:06:34 GMT 12
It looks to me like the problems were multiple, one example being that southern (Wellington) and eastern (PN/Hawkes Bay) traffic were all expected to converge in Sanson (which is a bottleneck) before turning left into Fagan Rd. To me that was one of the most incomprehensible parts of the 'plan'. Every other airshow at Ohakea I can remember has put southern traffic straight onto Speedys from SH1. Routing everyone through a known bottleneck only to put them straight back on a road they have already passed makes no sense to me. it should have in theory been a quick journey onto base in single file but for some reason traffic crawled & stop/started along here too. I'd say it had something to do with coming into one entrance on base for the parking. A big issue there I think was people not pre-buying tickets in the numbers expected. When the queue split into ticket and non-ticket holding lanes on Pukenui Rd, the ticket holding lane was practically empty when I got there around 0900. Having a ticket already meant a much faster entry, and less delays for those behind. |
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Post by Freighter5910 on Apr 21, 2012 11:17:29 GMT 12
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Post by mumbles on Apr 21, 2012 11:31:54 GMT 12
The ones who 'took it into their own hands' caused the problem by being unprepared and not planning the trip. And as for 'luck and experience' did that come in with the new give way rules? What happened to following directions and getting in line. We've been to plenty of events at Ohakea and elsewhere where we followed directions, and everyone has got in just fine. That is the only 'experience' we relied on. Nope still disagree. Luck is missing the crash at Mt Stewart, experience is knowing where Speedy, Fagan, Tangimoana et al are without needing signposts. It absolutely does not matter how much advance publicity you put in prior; if you don't back it up properly on the day it is worthless. Simply blaming the punters and saying it is their own stupid fault is a cop-out when the support/guidance they could reasonably expect to be there is lacking. As for being unprepared, the majority of the show goers at any show are non-regular, non-enthusiasts. Plenty of them will know where Ohakea is due to it's location on SH1, but I'm guessing few of them would have ever been to anything on the base. On that basis you have a tonne of people who have never been to Ohakea but know roughly how to get there. It isn't unreasonable for them to expect to have proper guidance on the ground to get them on the right track and keep them there, as you would expect for any large public event. The overwhelming feedback from the public is that the guidance wasn't there. Simply saying "oh but there was a map" is inadequate. A good plan will assume and be able to accomodate people who haven't seen any publicity at all. |
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Post by mumbles on Apr 21, 2012 11:43:43 GMT 12
As for the Air Force ducking for cover by saying it was outsourced - seriously? Half an hour of planning, ten or fifteen Air Force personnel and a few traffic cones has worked in the past, very well. I got the sense with a few aspects of the show that perhaps there was some wheel re-inventing at play; either through not being aware of how it has been done well in the past or trying to "new and improve" for whatever reason. |
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Post by Dave Homewood on Apr 21, 2012 12:05:37 GMT 12
They need to have airshows at each base once a year, to cut down on the huge numbers coming every four or five years! That way they will iron out all the bugs and it'll run more smoothly. Wigram used to have a show every year and there were never issues.
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Post by phil82 on Apr 21, 2012 12:17:25 GMT 12
. There's yet to be any evidence supplied that this outsourced traffic management company exists... . It does! www.safe4u.co.nz/These are the people I saw erecting signs two hours too late! |
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Post by saratoga on Apr 21, 2012 12:39:49 GMT 12
Its been quite a few years since the last Ohakea airshow, maybe they just forgot how to do it?
And i don't recall ever needing pre booked tickets,thats just a money grabber.
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Post by ErrolC on Apr 21, 2012 12:52:57 GMT 12
... And i don't recall ever needing pre booked tickets,thats just a money grabber. What on earth is the logic behind this statement? |
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Post by phil82 on Apr 21, 2012 13:08:54 GMT 12
And i don't recall ever needing pre booked tickets,thats just a money grabber. You may have to explain the rationale behind that statement! Whether or not you bought your ticket in advance or paid on entry, the price was the same, so how is pre-booking "money-grabbing?" |
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Post by nige on Apr 21, 2012 15:38:25 GMT 12
A big issue there I think was people not pre-buying tickets in the numbers expected. When the queue split into ticket and non-ticket holding lanes on Pukenui Rd, the ticket holding lane was practically empty when I got there around 0900. Having a ticket already meant a much faster entry, and less delays for those behind. I do agree with Dave that we do need to get off this topic (because it's a distraction), but I just need to say (in case it is of use for any future events), when we came into Pukenui Rd, I kept looking for signage to indicate which lane ticket holders (such as ourselves) and non-ticket holders were to take. I didn't see any signs! (And if there were any perhaps there was only one that I missed)? * So as we drove down Pukenui Rd looking for the ticket/non-ticket signage, I could see via the road cones cars were expected to either keep left or get into the right lane. Someone directing traffic (RNZAF) did call out something but I couldn't hear what she was saying and I couldn't really stop because I didn't want to stop the traffic behind us after the delays getting onto base! So a spilt second decision was made to stay in the left hand lane (seeing that's were most cars in front were going), so I suspect I might have ended up in the main non-ticket holder car-park (whereas I only saw one car in front turn into the right lane and then turn right presumably to one of the car parks on the airfield). So again I assume this wasn't the RNZAF's fault, but the fault of these Integrated Traffic Solutions people for not putting up any signs (or if they did, what one perhaps)? So it looks like the poor old RNZAF personnel had to do the traffic duties and were let down by lack of signage? @ Freighter, I hear you and totally understand your frustration. We got caught too in the traffic stand still before Mt Stewart and I was content to do the "right thing" and wait, which we did for as long as we could but alas my missus was desperate to go to the toilet after being stuck for so long and after being on the receiving end I finally consulted a map to seek an alternative route to head to the nearest township and after the stop then carried on vai the back roads (and prior to turning around I saw a couple of cars of ATC cadets talking to the other ATC vehicle and they turned around so I reckoned something was up). On the whole I'd say the percentage of people using alternative roads would have been small (hence my previous comments)? * Edit: To clarify, I saw the ticket/non-ticket holder signage the night before (when attending the forum meet) on the eastern (SH1) side of Pukenui Rd at the base's main entrance .... but as per written above I looked out for similar signs on the western side of Pukenui Rd ie the base's back entrance, but honestly couldn't see them! To make it worse I was so analy-retentive I looked for these signs when leaving the airshow heading west and still didn't see any! |
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Post by saratoga on Apr 22, 2012 12:35:04 GMT 12
And i don't recall ever needing pre booked tickets,thats just a money grabber. You may have to explain the rationale behind that statement! Whether or not you bought your ticket in advance or paid on entry, the price was the same, so how is pre-booking "money-grabbing?" Well ,for when they stuff up the traffic and pre books don't get in. OK ,they offered a refund but someone has had your money in the meantime. |
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Post by ErrolC on Apr 22, 2012 13:18:45 GMT 12
You may have to explain the rationale behind that statement! Whether or not you bought your ticket in advance or paid on entry, the price was the same, so how is pre-booking "money-grabbing?" Well ,for when they stuff up the traffic and pre books don't get in. OK ,they offered a refund but someone has had your money in the meantime. Pre-books speed up the entry procedure. Many events (e.g. Tauranga airshow) give you a discount for pre-booking as it makes things that much easier on the day (as well as helping with cashflow). When tickets are only $10, there isn't much room for discounts - while say $15 would have been an idea for the 'gate' price, then you have more hassles with giving change. |
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