pops1
Leading Aircraftman
Posts: 2
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Post by pops1 on Jun 14, 2020 14:19:38 GMT 12
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Post by alanster on Jun 14, 2020 23:09:01 GMT 12
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Post by macnz on Jun 15, 2020 16:20:14 GMT 12
Air NZ is 52% NZ government-owned. " The $900 million loan facility will be offered "..in two tranches, with interest rates ranging from 7% to 9% a year and on condition that Air New Zealand would cancel its interim dividend worth NZ$123 million ($69.78 million), which Air New Zealand said it would." source: www.reuters.com/article/us-air-new-zealand-debt-idUSKBN216464Comment: Air New Zealand is not only bone-yarding? air worthy aircraft (15x 777 at least) but the ongoing cost (storage and leasing) to doing so is being carried by its shareholders- of which the NZ public are 52% (excl. institutional NZ shareholders). So even if we put aside the loan facility and the job keeper subsidy, the NZ public will still be outlaying for aircraft that perhaps a couple might be better served now with the Air Force than sitting in the OZ outback if someone just thought about it. Sorry guys it infuriates me, to read someone talk about having to scrimp and save $300m-600m for 2028, when effectively the taxpayer already have paid for access to assets (B777/A320s). A number of countries lease their government transports from their national carriers - Japan, Korea, Germany come immediately to mind. Their air forces still operate them but the asset is owned, maintained and upgraded by the national carrier. Given our ownership stake in AirNZ, and the company is undergoing dramatic restructuring, this might be the opportune time to setup the Air force with Air NZ to access air assets that avoids the usual tortured procurement path we debate about. The govt leases cars why cant it be the same for our air transport needs? Much more fiscally sustainable, but like you said:- maybe its just too sensible. |
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Post by machina on Jun 15, 2020 19:49:34 GMT 12
B777 is too big for everything. It could only land at Ohakea. Not an option. I just googled the size difference between the 757 & 777; I had no idea the difference was so big between the two. |
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Post by madmac on Jun 15, 2020 20:42:30 GMT 12
So is the engine wait because there is no rush as the airframe is out for other reasons, or is the NZDF paying for being a very minor customer of an engine manufacturer (RR) that has a large maintenance backlog due to them forgetting how to make aero engines that work as advertised? Or they had insufficient spare engines, since they can't buy an overhauled engined & then sell their engine that's in need of an overhaul (like an airline would if they ended up in the same spot). |
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Post by beagle on Jun 15, 2020 23:27:59 GMT 12
B777 is too big for everything. It could only land at Ohakea. Not an option. All depends on tasking Dave. for local tasks, quite a lot of airfields her in NZ are able to take them as they would not need as much fuel on board as long range international flights and if they were tasked witht hat, a quick hop to Mangere to fill up would be quite easy. As some have stated putting a cargo door on them to turn them i to a combi type aircraft. They have undefloor freight space able to take about 10 pallets abiet a few inches lower than in upper cabin of B757. |
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jun 15, 2020 23:49:56 GMT 12
Totally impractical. And you're dreaming if you think any of Air New Zealand's 777's will end up with the RNZAF.
Frankly if the RNZAF wanted to buy some second hand airliners that are currently being shed by the airlines they should get a couple more 757's. They are a bloody good platform, perfect for the role, they are used by a lot of Air Forces, heaps of power, and they can get into far more airfields than the 777. Keep the ones we have and add one or two more to the fleet so they do not have the issue of not enough planes when one is in maintenance.
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Post by nighthawknz on Jun 15, 2020 23:58:35 GMT 12
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Post by baz62 on Jun 16, 2020 8:05:26 GMT 12
The only looming issue with the 757 is spares. There is an ex RNZAF chap living in my street and he mentioned that landing gear spares were in short supply. This was 3 years ago so maybe they have done something about it since.
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Post by tbf25o4 on Jun 16, 2020 9:07:55 GMT 12
Interesting that landing gear spares are becoming critical. Was the primary reason for retiring the Andovers, Dowty Rotol were going to charge more than the original cost of the whole fleet
for a set of new undercarriages for each of the nine aircraft
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jun 16, 2020 9:15:43 GMT 12
There are still many users of the 757, including the US military, FedEx, UPS, etc. I'd be surprised if Boeing were no longer supporting spare parts to keep big fleets airworthy. Also when airlines like Delta and United start selling off their 757 fleets I'm sure they will also sell the stocks of spares they hold too.
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Post by madmac on Jun 16, 2020 9:39:28 GMT 12
The problem with the 757 is its still very popular, 2/3's of the fleet is still in operation (well I suppose at the beginning of the year) which is pretty exceptional for an airframe that's been 15 years out of production (only 5% of total build, built in the last 5 years of production). So parts are always going to be in short availability and pricey. Atleast 200 of the remaining 600 airframes are freighters & all the freight outfits are currently maxing out all their pilot hours, so I guess they will be also be on the hunt for more B757 for parts.
Extra aircraft isn't going get around the fact that engines are getting old, & there isn't much in the way of alternatives for younger engines (unless someone carelessly parks a C17 too close, for too long).
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Post by madmac on Jun 16, 2020 18:46:00 GMT 12
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Post by nighthawknz on Jun 16, 2020 19:58:12 GMT 12
Well they signed the dotted line
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Post by machina on Jun 16, 2020 20:08:42 GMT 12
Is this why the 757 and two Hercs flew around the city in formation today, with an Orion lurking out in the Gulf?
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Post by machina on Jun 16, 2020 20:10:32 GMT 12
Totally impractical. And you're dreaming if you think any of Air New Zealand's 777's will end up with the RNZAF. Frankly if the RNZAF wanted to buy some second hand airliners that are currently being shed by the airlines they should get a couple more 757's. They are a bloody good platform, perfect for the role, they are used by a lot of Air Forces, heaps of power, and they can get into far more airfields than the 777. Keep the ones we have and add one or two more to the fleet so they do not have the issue of not enough planes when one is in maintenance. Are there any 757s being sold off though? I guess part of Mac’s point above is that going after AirNZ stock benefits two NZ national interests. |
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jun 16, 2020 20:25:43 GMT 12
The idea of the RNZAF taking over airliners such as Boeing 777's off the hands of Air New Zealand is pie in the sky utter fantasy.
You would probably be surprised to hear how many Air New Zealand staff members read the dribble posted here on this thread that take the time to tell me what crap is being suggested here. They say some of you have really no clue about what you are talking about, so if you do not actually work for the Air Force or an airline and have an actual insight into how things really work, please just shut your gobs, as I am sick of it all, and I am one step away from permanently closing this thread now that the C-130J's have been purchased.
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Post by beagle on Jun 16, 2020 21:06:52 GMT 12
Totally impractical. And you're dreaming if you think any of Air New Zealand's 777's will end up with the RNZAF. Frankly if the RNZAF wanted to buy some second hand airliners that are currently being shed by the airlines they should get a couple more 757's. They are a bloody good platform, perfect for the role, they are used by a lot of Air Forces, heaps of power, and they can get into far more airfields than the 777. Keep the ones we have and add one or two more to the fleet so they do not have the issue of not enough planes when one is in maintenance. Yes they are a bloody good aircraft dave and we have modified ours to suit our needs as best we can, but they are still only a medium range airliner. With B777 you are only a stop off to anywhere int he world. how many stops is say the B757 to fly to the UK. Yes chop this thread if you wish but there are many other forums discussing this and these people are very informed about both military and airline operations. |
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Post by vs on Jun 16, 2020 21:45:53 GMT 12
Totally agree with Dave. 777 is far to much aeroplane for the Air Force’s needs. Would only be able to operate it out of Ohakea (to large for any of the other Air Force bases) . At this stage there is no easy freight conversion (300ER about to be converted for the first time)
Having to stop a few more times to get to the UK once or twice a year is much cheaper than buying an aeroplane that can do it with one stop. When you only need that ability rarely.
There will be plenty of spares for many years to come for the 757, so not an issue
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Post by beagle on Jun 16, 2020 21:56:07 GMT 12
Totally agree with Dave. 777 is far to much for the Air Force. Would only be able to operate it out of Ohakea. what a load of bollocks |
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