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Post by johnnyfalcon on Jan 27, 2012 9:52:16 GMT 12
Funny thing, up until last night I had never watched 'Saving Private Ryan'. The movie reminded me much of the 'Band of Brothers' series and thus I enjoyed the portrayal similarly. I'm not very savvy when it comes to ground theatre details in Europe during WW2, just a general picture if you know what I mean, so I have a question:
Was there air-cover at Omaha during the invasion? Because nothing was portrayed until the P-51s attacking the tanks on the bridge at the end.
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Post by flyjoe180 on Jan 27, 2012 10:02:10 GMT 12
Omaha was bombed ahead of the sea borne invasion, but the bombers generally missed the bunkers and defences. The result you see in the aforesaid film. Air Support on the Beaches
During the June 6 D-Day assault itself, a total of 171 squadrons of British and AAF fighters undertook a variety of tasks in support of the invasion. Fifteen squadrons provided shipping cover, fifty-four provided beach cover, thirty-three undertook bomber escort and offensive fighter sweeps, thirty-three struck at targets inland from the landing area, and thirty-six provided direct air support to invading forces. The Luftwaffe's appearance was so minuscule that Allied counterair measures against the few German aircraft that did appear are not worth mentioning.
Of far greater importance was the role of aircraft in supporting the land battle. As troops came ashore at Normandy, they made an unpleasant discovery all too familiar to the Marine Corps and Army operating in the Pacific campaign. Despite the intensive air and naval bombardment of coastal defenses, those defenses were, by and large, intact when the invasion force "hit the beach." This was particularly true at OMAHA beach, where American forces suffered serious casualties and critical delays. Despite a massive series of attacks by Eighth Air Force B-17s, B-24s and medium bombers in the early hours of June 6, the invading troops were hung up on the beach. The air commanders themselves had, in fact, predicted that the air and naval bombardments would not achieve the desired degree of destruction of German defensive positions. The Army's general optimism that air would cleanse the beaches before its approach, however, was shattered. Only the subsequent success of fighter-bombers operating against the battlefield would revive the Army's confidence in air support. Indeed, throughout the post-Normandy campaign--and in the Second World War as a whole--the fighter-bomber proved overwhelmingly more valuable in supporting and attacking ground forces in the battle area than did the heavy or even the medium bomber. www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/AAF/AAF-H-DDay/index.html |
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Post by ErrolC on Jan 27, 2012 10:03:49 GMT 12
... Was there air-cover at Omaha during the invasion? Because nothing was portrayed until the P-51s attacking the tanks on the bridge at the end. I think the general plan was to use naval gunfire for close-in support on the beaches, with tactical airpower being used further back. |
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Post by flyjoe180 on Jan 27, 2012 10:06:20 GMT 12
Someone has also asked a similar question online and the answer was: Poor weather hampered some Allied air operations, but the biggest issue was interoperability between the US Services. Naval bombardment was lobbing shells the equivalent of freight trains at 2000 feet altitude over the beaches, which made it difficult for fighter-bombers to drop down and strafe...Things were so confusde on the beachhead that little coordination was made between Air and Naval assets. Read more: wiki.answers.com/Q/Why_wasn't_there_more_fighter_aircraft_strafing_the_beaches_with_close_air_support_on_Omaha_beach_on_D-day#ixzz1kbXHpFM5 |
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Post by johnnyfalcon on Jan 27, 2012 10:16:24 GMT 12
Good grief... Well that explains things. Cheers for that. Does the movie follow historical accuracy reasonably then?
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Post by flyjoe180 on Jan 27, 2012 10:21:30 GMT 12
As an aside, Johnnie Houlton drew this diagram to show his destruction of a Ju88 over Omaha/Utah beaches on D-Day. I took a photo from the Paraparaumu Aviation Museum in 2007. It is quite hard to see here but I can email the original if anyone wants a copy.  |
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Post by johnnyfalcon on Jan 27, 2012 10:47:59 GMT 12
Cool!
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jan 27, 2012 11:05:39 GMT 12
Like all Spielberg-Hanks productions, yes it follows history pretty closely. It is of course fiction, unlike Band of Brothers which was based on real people, real stories.
For a very interesting insight into what happened at Omaha Beach I recommend Richard Hammond Presents Bloody Omaha, it's very good:
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Post by Luther Moore on Jan 27, 2012 16:32:10 GMT 12
Great movie!
Allied bombers were ordered to delay their drop point a couple of seconds inland. Consequently all their bombs fell well behind the German defenses. The naval bombardment was curtailed in attempt to preserve the element of surprise. However, a key element to the U.S. troops getting off the beach at Omaha were the U.S. Navy destroyers that closed on the shore until there were literally only a couple of inches of water beneath their keel. At point blank range they dueled with the German gun emplacements and cleared exits from the beach.
It took me ages to figure out what jackson meant when he said ''We left them 88's'' then I realised it's bacause they were Rangers and were meant to destroy the 88 cannons just inland from the beach but the mission got scrapped.
Also the soldier that kills Melish is a Waffen SS trooper the soldier they let go is a general soldier.
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Post by gunny on Jan 27, 2012 20:53:41 GMT 12
Lets not forget Gold and Juno and the other beaches that have not fallen into U.S revisionist history that seems to forget anyone else contributed to WWII and that they alone saved us all
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Post by Luther Moore on Jan 28, 2012 2:23:11 GMT 12
Off topic but thought this is worth seeing.  Uploaded with ImageShack.us |
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Post by flyjoe180 on Jan 28, 2012 8:05:07 GMT 12
It's the same bloke? Or am I missing something? Confusion...
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Post by Luther Moore on Jan 28, 2012 14:47:24 GMT 12
No it's not the same bloke. I only found that out last night,the whole time I thought it was the steaming willy guy from the Radar station they release earlier but it's a Waffen SS Trooper( on the right) who kills Mellish with a knife.
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Post by baz62 on Jan 28, 2012 16:02:25 GMT 12
No it's not the same bloke. I only found that out last night,the whole time I thought it was the steaming willy guy from the Radar station they release earlier but it's a Waffen SS Trooper( on the right) who kills Mellish with a knife. Who Upham then shoots at the end. But I think that chap who they let go at the Radar station is the same guy who knifes Mellish (as in the chap on the right) as he walks past Upham on the stairs afterwards without killing him as he knows who he was. Agree the chap on the left is not the same chap in either case. |
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Post by Luther Moore on Jan 28, 2012 16:20:38 GMT 12
No it's not the same bloke. I only found that out last night,the whole time I thought it was the steaming willy guy from the Radar station they release earlier but it's a Waffen SS Trooper( on the right) who kills Mellish with a knife. Who Upham then shoots at the end. But I think that chap who they let go at the Radar station is the same guy who knifes Mellish (as in the chap on the right) as he walks past Upham on the stairs afterwards without killing him as he knows who he was. Agree the chap on the left is not the same chap in either case. Yea I always thought that aswell, I think he lets Upham live because Upham takes his hand off the trigger. If you watch the movie the guy that kills Mellish is wearing a camo Waffen SS uniform and is not the same guy as the one they let go earlier and later shoots Cpt Miller on the bridge.They look very similar but are different. |
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Post by baz62 on Jan 28, 2012 16:49:40 GMT 12
Ah but just before Upham shoots him at the end he calls Upham by name. So he has to be the same chap from the radar station. I think he is in that line of German soldiers along with the other chap pictured on the left.
Dang I'll have to watch it again to be sure now ha ha.
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Post by Luther Moore on Jan 28, 2012 17:12:18 GMT 12
Yea the guy that Upham shoots (because he shot Cpt Miller on the bridge) is the guy from the radar station.The guy that kills Mellish (with knife) is some random SS Trooper.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jan 28, 2012 19:27:29 GMT 12
I think it sucks they gave a great hero soldier's name to that coward character.
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Post by Luther Moore on Jan 28, 2012 19:39:17 GMT 12
I think it's great that they added someone who was scared as most movies portray soldiers to be fearless rambos.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jan 28, 2012 20:09:49 GMT 12
True. I just wish they could have found a name that wasn't the same as the most fearless man of WWII...
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