zkarj
Warrant Officer
Posts: 34
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Post by zkarj on Jan 12, 2023 10:06:42 GMT 12
A couple of points on all this.
First, it seems that 4801 has not left the ground since it arrived on delivery. Someone told me it wouldn't be flying until simulators were in place. I thought that odd, but certainly my FR24 alert for "P8" has not gone off at all.
Second... what on earth happened with the font for the serial? At least they used the right* Kiwi, but the serial font is... confronting. Is it a US Navy standard?
*I am a firm supporter of the one and only original Kiwi. The Texans (and various signage) seem to be the only kit to have adopted the new design which I find very telling.
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Post by phil on Jan 12, 2023 10:48:00 GMT 12
The simulators are some time away, since the building for them is still under construction, that has nothing to do with 01 not having flown. It hasn't flown because everyone has been on leave over Christmas. PTU will be carrying out a range of training activities in preparation for flying operations to start soon.
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Post by ajmcg on Feb 1, 2023 14:30:15 GMT 12
Seems to me to be along time to try the new toy. The P-3’s are officially retired so P-8’s are it. I wouldn’t be surprised if the next completed P-8 from Boeing goes to the RNZAF to bolster numbers.
Also of interest is the retirement of Air Ordance trade with the P-3. Are we never intending to purchase Harpoon ASM or torpedoes?
Are they only robe for SAR, EEZ and environmental patrols?
Traditionally NZDF has had 3 offensive weapons, Navy frigates, Army SAS and Air Force P-3 Orions.
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Post by tbf2504 on Feb 1, 2023 15:06:47 GMT 12
Does the crew of nine include a flight engineer or has this trade been reduced to just the current C130H and will disappear with the C130J??
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nz104
Pilot Officer
Posts: 54
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Post by nz104 on Feb 1, 2023 15:40:12 GMT 12
The P8 does not have a Flight engineer & the flight engineers role will disappear completely when the J's enter service as there is no need with the automated systems onboard the new aircraft.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Feb 1, 2023 17:38:07 GMT 12
You need to listen to WONZ 268 and 269 Paul.  |
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Post by 30sqnatc on Feb 1, 2023 18:24:14 GMT 12
Traditionally NZDF has had 3 offensive weapons, Navy frigates, Army SAS and Air Force P-3 Orions. WHAT! The members of NZDF Ouput 2, the Army Multi Role Battalion Group which is an all arms organisation with numerous significant weapon systems that will deploy as Light Infantry or Light Armour may have something to say about that list. |
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Post by lesterpk on Feb 2, 2023 0:16:01 GMT 12
6Sqn with it's Maverick and now Penguin missles has joined the chat.
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Post by tbf2504 on Feb 2, 2023 8:50:06 GMT 12
Touche Dave, will have a look at them.
It would be interesting to list all the types the RNZAF has flown that included a Flight Engineer as regular crew.
I would start with the Singapore Flying Boats, Catalinas, Sunderlands (WWII and onwards) C47's (On the long haul Courier flights to Japan) etc etc
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Post by Dave Homewood on Feb 2, 2023 9:53:51 GMT 12
It would be interesting to list all the types the RNZAF has flown that included a Flight Engineer as regular crew. I would start with the Singapore Flying Boats, Catalinas, Sunderlands (WWII and onwards) C47's (On the long haul Courier flights to Japan) etc etc DC-6, Hastings, Hercules. Orion, Boeing 727. |
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Post by baronbeeza on Feb 2, 2023 11:39:46 GMT 12
While the F-27 often had engineering personnel listed in the crew manifest on some deployments they were ground trades.
I can't speak for the Andover but they may well have been the same.
I never saw a Flight Engineer in my time on the Friendships and I am unaware of any that may have even done type training.
I was onboard during one Aussie trip and witnessed an LAC become an 'instant' Sergeant for the duration. While he did wear his new chevrons we never went so far as to pin a brevet on his uniform.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Feb 2, 2023 11:54:57 GMT 12
While the F-27 often had engineering personnel listed in the crew manifest on some deployments they were ground trades. Thanks, I did wonder that when I wrote Friendship and I even put a question mark as I was typing, and then removed it thinking someone will correct it if it is wrong. The exact same thing is the case for the Singapores, they did not have Flight Engineer tradesmen among their crews, they had ground engineers who flew. They were also Air Gunners, and were not formally trained in either role. The RNZAF had no training system for Flight Engineers in place till the Catalinas and C-47's arrived. |
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Post by camtech on Feb 2, 2023 19:24:29 GMT 12
Andovers were in the same boat as the Friendship - having filled that role on both types. Another that fits that profile would be the B170.
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Post by Mustang51 on Feb 3, 2023 9:00:10 GMT 12
Can someone advise me why the P8 - unless I have been extremely "old timers" - is not even featured as a future capability in the RNZAF official web site? Have I missed something or does it not qualify, even though one is there, as a capability until the RNZAF is fully equipped?
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Post by phil on Feb 3, 2023 22:10:04 GMT 12
Seems to me to be along time to try the new toy. The P-3’s are officially retired so P-8’s are it. I wouldn’t be surprised if the next completed P-8 from Boeing goes to the RNZAF to bolster numbers. Also of interest is the retirement of Air Ordance trade with the P-3. Are we never intending to purchase Harpoon ASM or torpedoes? Are they only robe for SAR, EEZ and environmental patrols? Traditionally NZDF has had 3 offensive weapons, Navy frigates, Army SAS and Air Force P-3 Orions. Lack of air ordnance trade has no implication for the weapons. We no longer have air engineers either, but the P8 still has engines. The mission crew will handle the Sonobuoys and other cabin stores. Once the maintainers have loaded the Torpedoes, there's nothing for an ord to do anyway, other than a final check before flight, and other aircrew will do that, it's just following a checklist. I'd be more concerned there's no armourers to load them. |
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Post by phil on Feb 3, 2023 22:14:41 GMT 12
6Sqn with it's Maverick and now Penguin missles has joined the chat. Maverick is long gone. Was not really a viable anti ship weapon anyway. Too short range for anything that could actually shoot back, too big for small boats like a pirate ship. Penguin gives the frigates an over the horizon ASuW capability, and it's quite a clever little missile. Range is still a bit short, but useful in that the Seasprite can be a long way from the ship. Seasprite also has Mk46. |
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Post by tbf2504 on Feb 4, 2023 7:34:49 GMT 12
Our P-8's in addition to the weapons bay, have hard points on the wings for stand-off weapons such as Harpoons. As indicated above in my discussions with the crew of NZ4801 at Ohakea, everything stores/weapons wise is controlled by the computer systems onboard, as arranged by either the automation or the TACCO. The P-8A does not have the ability to drop small things such as radio packs from the door, (unlike the P-3)
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Post by oj on Feb 4, 2023 9:15:13 GMT 12
What about dropping a rescue dinghy to a boat in distress?
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Post by ErrolC on Feb 4, 2023 9:57:32 GMT 12
What about dropping a rescue dinghy to a boat in distress? There are packages dropped from the bomb bay. |
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Post by Dave Homewood on Feb 4, 2023 10:46:50 GMT 12
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