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Post by phil on Feb 5, 2023 21:39:26 GMT 12
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Post by Antonio on Feb 7, 2023 9:08:47 GMT 12
The air force's new flying machines From RNZ Detail: www.rnz.co.nz/programmes/the-detail/story/2018876138/the-air-force-s-new-flying-machinesIncludes podcasts  Photo: RNZ / Samuel Rillstone
Our old heroes of the Air Force, the P-3 Orions, have retired after 56 years of service - and the first of the flash new Poseidon P-8As has arrived. But is the accusation that we've chosen the gold-plated replacement a fair one? And is Green Party criticism that we should be moving away from operating weapons of war valid? "They are a weapon. They're an advanced weapon," says David Capie, the director of the Centre for Strategic Studies at Victoria University. "They're a maritime patrol aircraft that's designed for a whole range of tasks, and those tasks range from, at one end of the spectrum, search and rescue, and responding to humanitarian assistance and disasters in the Pacific, and fisheries patrol; but they're also a high-end platform for anti-submarine warfare ... essentially for being able to detect what's on the surface and what's below the surface. "So to pretend that these aircraft are only really about search and rescue, or humanitarian assistance, or environmental monitoring really misses the point. "These are aircraft that have the ability to work with partners, and work in a range of environments including more dangerous and non-permissible environments, and to be able to carry on and advance New Zealand's interests in regional and international security." Capie thinks we need to get out of the mode of thinking our Air Force is only used for emergencies. "Surely one of the lessons that's come home in spades over the last couple of years is that we're living in a much more challenging and dangerous world," he says. "We shouldn't be panicky or hysterical about the challenges that are out there, but I think we do need to recognise that the world is a more challenging place and New Zealand's national interests, and security interests, are being challenged - and we need to think about how we best want to respond. "One of the criticisms is that this is really a gold-plated aircraft that's really about anti-submarine warfare ... and it's really about buying into, or tying yourself into your big allies' concerns about security, and not about independent foreign policy. "But I really think an independent foreign policy in many ways is about giving the New Zealand government choices. And the P-8 can do that huge range of tasks from the softer end, from the search and rescue, from trans-national crime, fisheries and so on - but it can also provide New Zealand governments with options and choices in the event of a much more dangerous and challenging scenario in our region." The Detail also talks to the man in charge of the new planes, Wing Commander Mark Whiteside, who is the Commanding Officer of the Poseidon Transition Unit at the Ohakea air base. He runs us through the nitty-gritty of the upgrades, including that the Poseidons fly about 25 percent faster than the Orions with a cruise speed of 440 knots. And while they can't remain airborne for quite as long as the Orions, if we are on international exercises with other P-8 nations - including the US, UK and Australia - they can be re-fuelled mid-air. (We don't have a refuelling tanker.) Wing Commander Mark Whiteside explains why six down to four is actually an upgrade - listen to the podcast to find out why. You can find out how to listen and subscribe to The Detail here. You can also stay up-to-date by liking us on Facebook or following us on Twitter. |
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Post by snafu on Feb 7, 2023 11:15:36 GMT 12
"Capie thinks we need to get out of the mode of thinking our Air Force is only used for emergencies."
I think that one line says a lot about where the NZDF and most notably where they should think the RNZAF role is first and foremost.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Feb 7, 2023 12:18:34 GMT 12
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Post by alanster on Feb 7, 2023 12:29:00 GMT 12
Totally with Capie re: independent foreign policy.
I think an independent foreign policy means NZ should build up its defence forces to approach a NZ version of Finland or Switzerland’s “armed neutrality”.
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Post by snafu on Feb 7, 2023 13:36:56 GMT 12
Totally with Capie re: independent foreign policy. I think an independent foreign policy means NZ should build up its defence forces to approach a NZ version of Finland or Switzerland’s “armed neutrality”. Bit diffrent for the Swiss and their capabilities as they are land locked and surronded by potential incursions if war broke in their surrounds. A case in point was that aircrews who fly over Swiss airspace in WWII we told they could be shot down and the aircrews interned for the duration of the war both allied and axis crews. Don't think anyone is going to fly over NZ if a something happened in the Pacific, also that would mean that NZ would have to fully denounce all defence treaties like the ANZUS treaty between Australia/NZ ANZUS no longer applies between US/NZ |
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Post by machina on Feb 7, 2023 18:52:01 GMT 12
Totally with Capie re: independent foreign policy. I think an independent foreign policy means NZ should build up its defence forces to approach a NZ version of Finland or Switzerland’s “armed neutrality”. Bit diffrent for the Swiss and their capabilities as they are land locked and surronded by potential incursions if war broke in their surrounds. If war breaks out where it currently seems likely to then disruption to the sea lanes so vital to this country will be an incursion of sorts. The Greens and their ilk seem to mean by ‘independent’ a mix of do nothing/go with the flow, and have it both ways. Militarily it seems to be ideally no military but if we have to have something then definitely no kit from the Uniquely Evil Americans. Can’t believe their support hovers around 10-15%, and that their opinion is always sought/inserted into a news item about the NZDF. |
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Post by tfly on Feb 13, 2023 8:32:18 GMT 12
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zkarj
Warrant Officer
Posts: 34
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Post by zkarj on Feb 27, 2023 11:56:45 GMT 12
I see '01 has been buzzing around the country a lot lately... it just seems to be allergic to Wellington. I did hear it fly over once at 10,000ft, and saw on FR24 that it was buzzing fishing boats at 2,000ft in Cook Strait, but it has otherwise steadfastly avoided the area. I would have thought it would be shown off to politicians by now. I also see '02 has been out and about in Washington... www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/nz4802 |
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Post by machina on Mar 14, 2023 21:48:42 GMT 12
NZ4801 spotted at RAAF Edinburgh.
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chasper
Flight Lieutenant
Posts: 74
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Post by chasper on Mar 15, 2023 17:17:40 GMT 12
The aircraft did several loops around Whenuapai at around 11.00am this morning and then a 757 did some touch and goes at about 3.00pm so an interesting day at the base.
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Post by Antonio on Mar 15, 2023 17:40:27 GMT 12
The aircraft did several loops around Whenuapai at around 11.00am this morning and then a 757 did some touch and goes at about 3.00pm so an interesting day at the base. Loops or circuits??? |
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chasper
Flight Lieutenant
Posts: 74
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Post by chasper on Mar 15, 2023 18:04:39 GMT 12
OK, Circuits... looked really cool I must say.
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Post by camtech on Mar 16, 2023 9:17:06 GMT 12
NZ4802 on the way to her new home
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Post by ErrolC on Mar 16, 2023 9:55:08 GMT 12
Two delivered, and two more to go! 🇳🇿
The @nzairforce’s second Washington-made P-8 Poseidon multi-mission maritime patrol aircraft is on its way home.
This #P8 joins a global fleet of 156 aircraft that have collectively logged more than 500,000 flight hours
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Post by machina on Mar 16, 2023 16:11:54 GMT 12
ETA?
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Post by camtech on Mar 16, 2023 16:15:19 GMT 12
tonight - Hawaii
Tomorrow - Fiji
Saturday - Ohakea?
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Post by ZacYates on Mar 17, 2023 8:01:46 GMT 12
And I'm working Saturday, of course!  |
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Post by ErrolC on Mar 17, 2023 9:18:21 GMT 12
Didn't they have a rest day for 01?
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Post by ErrolC on Mar 20, 2023 12:31:37 GMT 12
Expected 3pm. I assume at Ohakea.
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