Bring Our Birds Home Campaign Launch

[aerofoto]

Surprised "THIS" hasn't been reported "HERE" yet .... unless I've missed it



Please refer to the following video links .... posted in chronological order ....







FEBRUARY 27TH 2017 (launch)











MARCH 2ND 2017 (update)











MARCH 6TH 2017 (update)











MARCH 8TH 2017 (display suggestions)











MARCH 14TH 2017 (update)











MARCH 19TH 2017 (transportation options/possibilities)











The task is (almost dauntingly) huge and there's a hell of a lot of work to be done .... "IF" the campaign can successfully be brought to fruition .... but .... I do wish Paul luck, and success, with this promotion





Mark C

AKL/NZ

[kiwithrottlejockey]

The problem is though, if/when you get them “home” to New Zealand, where are you going to put them so they don't slowly corrode away while parked out in the weather?

[Deleted]

That's one of many questions I have about this project - stopping the corrosion already present in all but the Electra will be a mammoth job in itself. The others have been derelict for some years - the project launch video has some photos which give an indication of their condition.

It's a noble idea, but
- who will pay for disassembly and transport?
- who will disassemble them? We're not talking about Fireflies or Sea Furies, these are decent-sized aircraft
- as Bruce pointed out, where will they be stored in New Zealand (a 747 and DC-10 would need a decent-sized shed) pending restoration
- who will pay for and carry out restoration? I can't imagine volunteers being able to do much in less than a decade on any one of them, let alone five
- where will they be displayed, and who will pay for the facility/facilities? A couple of posts/replies by the project seem to indicate (or at least they read to me like) that's not really their problem and that all they want is to get the airframes into the country
- the DC-8 is hoped to be part of a "cultural exchange" with Brazil, but beyond a handover ceremony I'm struggling to see what Brazil gets in exchange

Just getting the airframe is only the first step - just look at my Fletcher! That's been sitting in my parents' driveway for almost eight years, sure it's safe from scrappers but nothing's been done with it. I shudder to think at what's involved in getting multiple airliners to NZ.

I don't want to come across as completely negative. I just think there are a lot of answers needed before I invest anything into the project. And I think it'll be a hard road to convince the general public to chip in.

[Dave Homewood]

I have been following this on Facebook and I have Paul Brennan lined up for a WONZ Show interview in the very near future.

[denysjones]

I was under the impression that the DC-8 bit the dust in the cleanup at Manaus airport before the soccer world cup.

I had a quick look on Google at the time I was told of that and the area where I believe historically she'd shared space with some other derelicts was empty.

Also the logistics of getting a whole DC-8 out of Manaus are huge as it's jungle locked up the Amazon miles from the nearest sea port and she sure as hell isn't going to fly out. I should add that I saw a tv doco on the preparations for the soccer world cup there and they were stringing a power supply through hundreds of kilometres of rain forest to link Manaus to the national grid as it was so isolated that it had historically been off grid and generated its own power but wasn't up to providing what was needed to host games for the cup. In the course of this doco they said that there are no road links to Manaus so you can rule out trucking her out.

Seems to be beyond economic reality to me.

[aeromedia]

A really big ask, but good on Paul Brennan for giving it a shot. He's no stranger to aviation, remember 30 Years of the Boeing 737 in Kiwi Service video? As a side comment, I followed him as a presenter at Radio BOP when he moved on.
Maybe the cockpits/forward fuse sections would be more realistic.
The Buffalo Electra could make a great project for retired Air NZ pilots and technical crews, along the lines of the HARS model in Australia. They wrote the book on repatriating large aircraft, but then . . . . . in NZ , where does it realistically go?

[hamfists]

You could incorporate them into the structure of the new domestic terminal by the new runway at Auckland Airport...ho ho ho..one of them could form the entrance to the railway station connecting the airport to the city with rapid light rail..ha ha! Perhaps instead they could become the terminal at the combined airforce/regional airport at Whenuapai..ah hah haah...sniff..he he

Splitting sides talking about things that should happen but never will..

[aeromedia]

Surprised how very little interest/comment this has attracted on here.

[Dave Homewood]

Me too considering there are so many airliner and airline fans here (which doesn't really include me).

[jp]

I'm not surprised at the lack of interest - even in the UK with about 15x the population of NZ, there are probably only 2 or 3 airliner collections (Duxford and Brooklands being the two that spring to mind) - both are underfunded and predominately on external display. Old airliners are very definately the poor cousins to military aircraft - unless it is a Concorde, public interest seems to be minimal.
As to lack of interest on this forum - maybe most people realise how unfeasible the idea is, but don't want to rain on anyone's parade?

[kiwithrottlejockey]

Whilst I'd love to see a collection of these aeroplanes on display somewhere, there are a few rather big and difficult practicalities involved.

Even if it is possible to get the various airframes to New Zealand, where do you put a Boeing 747, a McDonnell-Douglas DC-10, a Boeing 737-219, a Douglas DC-8-52 and a Locheed L.188 Electra? They are all bloody big aeroplanes (hugely so in the case of the 747 and DC-10). If you leave them outdoors, they will simply corrode away eventually. Yet the cost of a display hangar for HUGE aeroplanes like that would cost an absolute fortune. And that doesn't include the land you'd put such a hangar on. The only place you'd have any chance of cheap land would be way out in the back-blocks well away from population centres. And then you wouldn't have people with the interest and aptitude to volunteer to look after them.

And anyway, if I was looking for a historic ex-NZ airliner to restore to display purpose and I had the money to finance it, I think I'd be looking at a particular Douglas DC-6 hulk in South Africa that has a NZ history, with BCPA, then TEAL, as a compnion to and from the same era as ZK-AMO (it also has a RNZAF history, although that was as a mere common garden military transport and nowhere near as exciting as the Bristol Hercules-powered military transports from the same era operated by the RNZAF). But unfortunately, I think the Queenslanders think they've got first dibs on that DC-6 and they would probably get rather upset if Kiwis pinched it from under their noses.

[keroburner]

Ideally you'd want to get someone on board like the Auckland Airport company. Have them all flown in there and parked up. Have it all under cover and the entire complex accessed from the terminal. They certainly have the foot traffic/visitor numbers on site already to justify it. The time to recover that DC8 would have been when it was parked up after its last flight? Given the fact the airport doesn't have enough space for its current aircraft movements, and it's high $ value per square meter of terminal floor space, I don't think they'll want a 747 in the departures areas/food hall. All cool ideas though.

[Deleted]

I don't know if Auckland Airport has the room?

[madmac]

Apr 3, 2017 21:44:46 GMT 12 keroburner said:

Ideally you'd want to get someone on board like the Auckland Airport company. Have them all flown in there and parked up. Have it all under cover and the entire complex accessed from the terminal.

The yearly rental on a 737 sized hangar at Auckland is something like 250k plus a year. So even if you did get someone on board, what happens to the display when they leave & the company wants to make that bit more money.

Best bet for "saving" airliners on a budget, is just to take the tail fin (require little space to display just attach to the wall), the cockpit with the first few set rows attached and maybe a main gear leg or engine with pylon.

[zknadpukeko]

Apr 3, 2017 20:21:49 GMT 12 jp said:

I'm not surprised at the lack of interest - even in the UK with about 15x the population of NZ, there are probably only 2 or 3 airliner collections (Duxford and Brooklands being the two that spring to mind) - both are underfunded and predominately on external display. Old airliners are very definately the poor cousins to military aircraft - unless it is a Concorde, public interest seems to be minimal.
As to lack of interest on this forum - maybe most people realise how unfeasible the idea is, but don't want to rain on anyone's parade?

There are more than Duxford and Brooklands for airliners, Cosford is another (been to visit all more than once), and numerous other locations also have an airliner preserved. People are starting to wake up that airliners are as important, if not more in many cases, to some military aircraft. As much as I like military aircraft too, there needs to be a level field. Here we even have a few examples that have no history here, like a Mig 21, which of course is novel, but we also need to look at the aircraft that truly major factors that built this nation in relation to travelling to/from other aprts of the world. Look what has been done in Aurstalai, Hars, QFOM, Morrabin to name some, which have preserved not one but two 747s, one of each key variant. South Africa, which have a 747-200 and an SP at the same museum. Incidentally and of note, a 737-219, ex ZK-NAV 'Pukeko' also is on display there. Even in thrid world nations there have been airliners preserved, though unfortunately not always too well. One of Indonesia's first jets, a DC-9 is preserved at a large national history museum in Jakarta. Indeed that's it, these planes are national history, not just aviation. in some cases they also fall to other uses, a 737-200 has been turned into a restaurant in Philippines, and this or accommodation can make a way of paying for the purchase repatriation, renovation and ongoing upkeep. It's like a large heritage building, many of which we have saved, and as long as a business or something can go inside it, it pays the bills. It just requires some thinking outside the square, ans is happening worldwide. In fact, one of the aircraft that sat beside the DC-8 at Manaus for the same period of time, one of the very first 737s to work in Brazil (an early 1969 built 200 basic) was dismantled and trucked out to become part of a shopping development. At least three other 737-200s in Brazil have also been saved, the very first one going into a world class museum there with both mil and airliners present. If they can do it in Brazil, so should we.
That sad thing has been thus far in NZ, that if an aircraft gets over a certain size, it's been considered a too hard basket job, while various smaller aircraft get preserved in multiple. I mean for example we have xx number of Harvards preserved, and I don't decry it. However, it's significance or indeed wow factor over a (hopefully!) singular example of preserved DC-8 or mighty DC-10 or 747 that flew 80 million km, and 4 million pax at 900kph across the world in it's career, put things into perspective. The DC-8 and 737 are especially important to our national history, the DC-8 making our flag carrier a true international airline for the first time. Plus especially in the case of the -8 (or -10) it's a classic art like beauty of a famous manufacturer no more. As the most isolated nation to anywhere, this was not just the most major milestone in our aviation history, but in out nation social history too. the 737 similar, 47 years the -200 and -300 became an icon of our transport, and one of the transport industry's most successes. No question at least one example should be saved. as a collective it can be done, as has been truly exemplified in other nations.
I'm also in with railway preservation, and if people had decided that larger locomotives should only be preserved, we'd only have small shunt locos and whatever, while large mainline steam and diesel locoes of the past would not exist. However in most cases there is more than one of each of the larger machines to delight people who remember them and also for the younger generations.
It's no mean feat but it's time our allegedly 'can do' nation can show the same prowess as others. Paul Brennan will be known most favourably in history whichever way things happen. If we get them people will say in years to come thankfully someone had the initiative to do this. If if doesn't happen people will be saying that's amazing that no one thought to do that, except for one. As an isolated aviation minded nation that flew before the Wright Brothers, these are utmost gems of our heritage that deserve a rightful place. More than others, the jetliner made a mark in our history.
It will not be done at a hobby level, for obvious reasons... as Paul outlines here in a radio interview. But with the right backing and attitude as a collective, it will happen, over time. Also the help of large firms, esp Air NZ, if they could be a little more like Qantas have been, it would be a big stroke.
Good work Paul, bring it on, and bring our birds home.
ziln.co.nz/video/11078

[zknadpukeko]

Apr 3, 2017 20:43:17 GMT 12 kiwithrottlejockey said:

Whilst I'd love to see a collection of these aeroplanes on display somewhere, there are a few rather big and difficult practicalities involved.

Even if it is possible to get the various airframes to New Zealand, where do you put a Boeing 747, a McDonnell-Douglas DC-10, a Boeing 737-219, a Douglas DC-8-52 and a Locheed L.188 Electra? They are all bloody big aeroplanes (hugely so in the case of the 747 and DC-10). If you leave them outdoors, they will simply corrode away eventually. Yet the cost of a display hangar for HUGE aeroplanes like that would cost an absolute fortune. And that doesn't include the land you'd put such a hangar on. The only place you'd have any chance of cheap land would be way out in the back-blocks well away from population centres. And then you wouldn't have people with the interest and aptitude to volunteer to look after them.

And anyway, if I was looking for a historic ex-NZ airliner to restore to display purpose and I had the money to finance it, I think I'd be looking at a particular Douglas DC-6 hulk in South Africa that has a NZ history, with BCPA, then TEAL, as a compnion to and from the same era as ZK-AMO (it also has a RNZAF history, although that was as a mere common garden military transport and nowhere near as exciting as the Bristol Hercules-powered military transports from the same era operated by the RNZAF). But unfortunately, I think the Queenslanders think they've got first dibs on that DC-6 and they would probably get rather upset if Kiwis pinched it from under their noses.

Interesting comments. QFOM is probably as far as you can get in the backblocks, but it does very well, it's on the outskirts of a Longreach small town that has a very low pop base.
personally I think in sort of tune with QFOM , the site where Richard Pearse made his flight would be an excellent spot if the land could be purchased.
the DC-6 is interesting, however this seems to be the case, we saved piston engined aircraft of this era, incl the Solent as mentioned (the only of it's type) but our history did not stop there, as the most profound age has been that of the jetliner. Now that most countries are preserving those few remaining early examples before they are chopped up (as most have already been, it's time we saved the pinnacle in our aviation history as the odds are so it's amazing that an example of each of those key aircraft ex NAC/ANZ still remains.
The government heritage minister has been approached about the plan and they are very interested in the idea.
Agreed that it's out of the scope of volunteers, as Paul mentions in a radi cast, though once preserved, like say HARS or QFOM it could be staffed by such.
When it comes down to corrosion, i can only think of a Super Connie that landed at Manila NAIA in 1988 and the owner went into liquidation. It sat there abandoned with a few other classics for 25 years in the tropical heat with frequent cloudbursts, pollution and humidity, as a regular there I saw it many times. Then I had heard Qantas Founders wanted a Connie, and then Manila put it up for sale, and I was probably one of a number who alerted them to this. Not too long ago this aircraft was dismantled and shipped to Australia for preservation at QFOM. If it can sit there that long in such a harsh climate, and is still save able, then it's a good benchmark to say it's do-able for ours, which have sat around a much lesser timeframe.

[Bruce]

ahh the rose -tinted spectacles of someone who has no experience of aircraft engineering, preservation and restoration....

[joey05]

The transport and storage would be a huge task, what about getting just the cockpits, a bit of a compromise, but still retaining some history? Perhaps displayed alongside an engine?

[Deleted]

Apr 6, 2017 0:41:40 GMT 12 zknadpukeko said:

I'm also in with railway preservation, and if people had decided that larger locomotives should only be preserved, we'd only have small shunt locos and whatever, while large mainline steam and diesel locoes of the past would not exist. However in most cases there is more than one of each of the larger machines to delight people who remember them and also for the younger generations.

How much space does the larger locomotive require for display compared to a 747?

[zknadpukeko]

Apr 6, 2017 10:27:30 GMT 12 Bruce said:

ahh the rose -tinted spectacles of someone who has no experience of aircraft engineering, preservation and restoration....

The good folk of Qantas Founders and others must have had the same alleged spectacles apparently, but they seemed to get somewhere, hence the actual results rather than slamming it as a no goer. But projects have always had the 'knockers', far removed from the kiwi 'can do' attitude (or at least have a go) that other countries seem to have deployed , and had results. I expect there was a good share of knockers when OFOM decided they wanted to retrieve their first 707. And the good end result, well, is history. It's not as if we are aiming to fly ours back. The Connie from Manila and the 732 that sat beside the DC-8 are good examples of machines that sat long term in humid heat, so based on that there's a story here so little ole me with no aviation expertise can figure it. They would not have been touched otherwise, by the expertise inspecting them. Paul Brennan will be taking a retired Air NZ engineer with him who put his hand up.