|
|
Post by Naki on Sept 16, 2009 20:33:40 GMT 12
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2009 20:42:40 GMT 12
I have a suggestion...........................  |
|
|
|
Post by oldnavy on Sept 16, 2009 23:46:54 GMT 12
The beauty with ZacYates' suggestion is that it would be a huge boost to the existing fleet of weapons capable aircraft in the RNZAF.
There is a down side though.
Low flying (below 10,000 feet), slow (below 450 knots), propeller driven aeroplanes cannot survive in the presence of modern surface to air weaponry, and they are absolute sitting ducks in the presence of WVR or BVR fighters (even with apparently cool piston engines.)
Otherwise it's a great plan!
|
|
|
|
Post by flyinkiwi on Sept 17, 2009 16:41:58 GMT 12
flyinkiwi - That was a very well thought out scenario. However I get the feeling that it is more likely to be chinese expansionism or threat thereof that will cause a change in policy in the not too distant future.... Thoughts?? For the Chinese to entertain an expansionist policy at the very least they need to militarily be the match of the USA. That certainly WON'T happen in the "not too distant future". The only potential threat NZ has from China right now or in the not too distant future is purely economical. |
|
|
|
Post by yogi on Sept 17, 2009 21:12:07 GMT 12
flyinkiwi - That was a very well thought out scenario. However I get the feeling that it is more likely to be chinese expansionism or threat thereof that will cause a change in policy in the not too distant future.... Thoughts?? For the Chinese to entertain an expansionist policy at the very least they need to militarily be the match of the USA. That certainly WON'T happen in the "not too distant future". The only potential threat NZ has from China right now or in the not too distant future is purely economical. flyinkiwi Just to clarify, by not too distant I was meaning about 20 odd years not 5 or 6. By which stage i'm pretty sure china's economy will be far stronger than the U.S.A. Things in the U.S are only going to get worse where as things in china are only going to get better. Economic power inevitably leads to military power, however (this is just my opinion and an attempt to explain why I think what it think) being a communist country with a billion 'captive' residents I doubt they are going to embrace emancipation when their citizens begin to realise they dont actually like being told what to do. In a bid to keep them quiet it's likely the chinese government will turn to Nationalism hence the possibility of them becoming expansionist. I mean its either one way or the other, they cant stay a communist country and continue to grow the way they are and remain inactive. One of two things will happen, they will try to expand their influence with maybe at first diplomatic means then moving to military. Or they will give up and become democratic. Only problem is the chinese government wont just give away communism. thats just my opinion if you dont agree thats fine! |
|
|
|
Post by Barnsey on Sept 19, 2009 20:50:15 GMT 12
my 2 cents worth (and I think the chances of any of it coming true are pretty poor)!
No point in procuring the Hawk as an interim type. NZ already owns the Macchi (at the moment!) and it has plenty of life, it just needs an avionics upgrade. This upgrade can start with the architecture of the 339FD upgrade, but with the latest equipment. Plenty of offset to NZ industry as work can be done in-country.
Do a phased reintroduction of air combat capability by just operating the Macchi for a couple of years. There's enough of us around with fighter combat instruction experience that'd come back and start it back up again and train the next generation.
Immediately start on a rolling upgrade program to give 12 enhanced Macchis with 5 retained as attrition airframes e.g. Initially fly 8 original 339s while 9 are undergoing a mid-life upgrade, then tack the remaining 3 on the end of the line.
As for frontline types, my money's on the Gripen NG. Cheap(ish) to buy and operate, it's not the biggest fastest flashiest fighter around, but it seems to do the job well and is de rigueur for small 2nd world air forces.
There's a good argument for an ANZAC approach to NZ's air combat capability woes, but I think that unless there's generosity on the part of Australia or the USA, NZ would not be able to afford a meaningful contribution to either a Super Hornet or F-35 force.
Hello? Politicians? Are you reading this?!!
|
|
|
|
Post by yogi on Sept 21, 2009 17:31:42 GMT 12
Yep I think you've pretty much summed up the absolote ideal scenario. Both money wise and all round suitability!
I would still settle for F-16's. But. Some gripen NGs would be absolotely ideal eh...
|
|
|
|
Post by chewy on Sept 21, 2009 17:45:12 GMT 12
Did i see some one use the Macchi word. That is not an option for anything except a ground target. The engine in that thing is rubbish.
|
|
|
|
Post by yogi on Sept 21, 2009 18:17:50 GMT 12
surely whilst correctly maintained it's ok? I know very little about the macchi enlighten me!
|
|
|
|
Post by skyhawkdon on Sept 22, 2009 10:34:59 GMT 12
The version of the Viper in our Macchis was poorly designed and suffered from poor quality control at manufacture. Good maintenance (which we certainly had as we found all the problems with the engine!) can only do so much to compensate. It is also now unsupportable, RR having washed their hands of it. Had we kept the Macchis in service beyond 2002 the RNZAF would have either replaced the engine with an older, more reliable version of the Viper or derated the existing engines to try and get more reliability and life out of them. There were also a lot of other "quality" issues with the rest of the aircraft, particularly the avionics. A lot of it is now unsupportable.
|
|
|
|
Post by flycookie on Sept 22, 2009 10:52:54 GMT 12
Barnsey, Many personal thanks for you chiming here. I had wondered what your thoughts might be.
|
|
|
|
Post by yogi on Sept 22, 2009 19:03:28 GMT 12
I see.
Well then.. what we be a good lead in trainer to something like an F16 or gripen?
|
|
|
|
Post by beagle on Sept 22, 2009 19:55:19 GMT 12
MB339C
|
|
|
|
Post by chewy on Sept 22, 2009 22:22:08 GMT 12
Well said Skyhawkdon. When RR added the extra compressor stage they designed it on a computer and went straight into production without testing it properly. Then had to redesign the blades due to failures. Even new designed blades prone to failures. Only 20 of these engines ever built. Then came the casing failures due to the removal of thorium from the mix. New alloy prone to cracking. Fuel system also working at top end of design limits, and the list goes on. Intakes too small and water on runways can snuf engine on take off.
|
|
|
|
Post by nige on Sept 25, 2009 22:10:24 GMT 12
Well the way the UK's debt is mounting, and with the Govt there robbing Peter (the RN & RAF) to pay Paul (UK's Afghanistan campaign), I wouldn't be suprised to see some Typhoons cut back or withdrawn.
Perhaps John Key could discuss a new "bargain of the century deal" over a cup of tea with new UK PM David Cameron after the next UK election next year?
We'll take some off their hands el-cheapo, contract out some maintenance back to the Brits' Aussie subsidery's, and get some skilled ex-RNZAF pilots back to fly them and train up the next lot of Kiwi pilots!
RNZAF Typhoons v RAAF SH's & F35's - should make any new WILLOH type exercises quite interesting for all concerned!
|
|
|
|
Post by corokid66 on Sept 25, 2009 23:59:32 GMT 12
Well the way the UK's debt is mounting, and with the Govt there robbing Peter (the RN & RAF) to pay Paul (UK's Afghanistan campaign), I wouldn't be suprised to see some Typhoons cut back or withdrawn. Perhaps John Key could discuss a new "bargain of the century deal" over a cup of tea with new UK PM David Cameron after the next UK election next year? We'll take some off their hands el-cheapo, contract out some maintenance back to the Brits' Aussie subsidery's, and get some skilled ex-RNZAF pilots back to fly them and train up the next lot of Kiwi pilots! RNZAF Typhoons v RAAF SH's & F35's - should make any new WILLOH type exercises quite interesting for all concerned! And on that theme: The RAF have put 22 brand new Hawk Mk128 T-2's straight into storage rather than into service. This was part of a GBP450m deal for 28 new Hawks signed with the RAF in 2006. The RAF only require six new Hawks. Also the Koreans are thinking of actually giving away their sixteen Hawk Mk67's which are said to have 10 years of trouble free flying left in them to make room for the new T-50's. |
|
|
|
Post by Naki on Sept 26, 2009 9:13:40 GMT 12
The 22 RAF Hawk-128s are only tempoairily in storage while they change the advanced course structure..they will eventually enter RAF service..in fact they may need more.
|
|
|
|
Post by yogi on Sept 26, 2009 18:19:39 GMT 12
Well the way the UK's debt is mounting, and with the Govt there robbing Peter (the RN & RAF) to pay Paul (UK's Afghanistan campaign), I wouldn't be suprised to see some Typhoons cut back or withdrawn. Perhaps John Key could discuss a new "bargain of the century deal" over a cup of tea with new UK PM David Cameron after the next UK election next year? We'll take some off their hands el-cheapo, contract out some maintenance back to the Brits' Aussie subsidery's, and get some skilled ex-RNZAF pilots back to fly them and train up the next lot of Kiwi pilots! RNZAF Typhoons v RAAF SH's & F35's - should make any new WILLOH type exercises quite interesting for all concerned! Now thats the kind of spirit I like to see! |
|
|
|
Post by flycookie on Oct 1, 2009 11:23:03 GMT 12
The 22 RAF Hawk-128s are only tempoairily in storage while they change the advanced course structure..they will eventually enter RAF service..in fact they may need more. RAF has also requested the six 128s from FRADU be handed over to them for work at RAF Valley. Persistent talk of the RN fleet support then being done by a pair of ancient Hunters. Much as I admire the Hunter, its best days are now decades past, and this news, if correct, if appalling. Ho hum. |
|
|
|
Post by Dave Homewood on Oct 1, 2009 12:06:58 GMT 12
The Hunters have been doing this work for at least a year. I saw a thread on one of the UK forums (PlaneTalk I think) of them returning to service.
|
|
