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Post by phil82 on Sept 26, 2013 9:07:07 GMT 12
...and so ends New Zealand's involvement in the America's Cup.Bigger money won in the end, and we'll never be able to beat that, so it's all over folks!
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weheka
Squadron Leader
Posts: 105
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Post by weheka on Sept 26, 2013 9:22:07 GMT 12
Why has it taken until race 19 for the commentators to come out with what was obvious to most of us since about the middle of the series? Oracle had the faster boat, which seemed to be getting faster each race. Yet they kept on harping on about how equal the boats were. Why take so long to mention the fact they had a major difference in their foiling system? In the end it didn't come down to who were the best sailors, or boat builders, it's about who has the most money to be able to afford the best technology i.e. computer enhanced automatic systems on the boat. Bugger.
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Post by Peter Lewis on Sept 26, 2013 9:29:10 GMT 12
Old motor racing adage: Its really really hard to beat cubic money.
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Post by kiwithrottlejockey on Sept 26, 2013 15:31:31 GMT 12
Why has it taken until race 19 for the commentators to come out with what was obvious to most of us since about the middle of the series? Oracle had the faster boat, which seemed to be getting faster each race. Yet they kept on harping on about how equal the boats were. Why take so long to mention the fact they had a major difference in their foiling system? In the end it didn't come down to who were the best sailors, or boat builders, it's about who has the most money to be able to afford the best technology i.e. computer enhanced automatic systems on the boat. Bugger. In other words....the America's Cup is basically a "rich-man's pissing contest!"
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Post by flyinkiwi on Sept 26, 2013 15:48:13 GMT 12
Why has it taken until race 19 for the commentators to come out with what was obvious to most of us since about the middle of the series? Oracle had the faster boat, which seemed to be getting faster each race. Yet they kept on harping on about how equal the boats were. Why take so long to mention the fact they had a major difference in their foiling system? In the end it didn't come down to who were the best sailors, or boat builders, it's about who has the most money to be able to afford the best technology i.e. computer enhanced automatic systems on the boat. Bugger. In other words....the America's Cup is basically a "rich-man's pissing contest!" And has been since 2003 when Alinghi won it.
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Post by nuuumannn on Sept 26, 2013 16:06:05 GMT 12
Always has been. Some of the rules the challengers had to abide by from the beginning were slightly ridiculous. The Americans stipulated that the British challengers had to sail their boat to the USA, which meant that not only did it have to be able to be faster than the American boat, but also be an ocean-going yacht too. The last all-British challenger with any hope of defeating the Americans was Endeavor in 1934, which was captained by none other than Tommy Sopwith. Needless to say the American boat Rainbow won, but it was a close contest; Sopwith being let down by his largely inexperienced crew, but the campaign coined the phrase "Britannia rules the waves, but America waives the rules". Not much has changed in America's Cup yachting.
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Post by beagle on Sept 26, 2013 16:36:06 GMT 12
well there is only one thing I have to say
" Someone has to come second"
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Post by Bruce on Sept 26, 2013 19:42:42 GMT 12
Heres an interesting point.. it was exactly 30 years ago to the day that Australia II first took the cup away from from the USA. I've found the documentary below and some of the parallels with the current series are quite spooky!
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Post by Dave Homewood on Sept 26, 2013 20:12:36 GMT 12
Kiwis need to get a grip, all this misery is ridiculous, we haven't lost anything important. It's not as if it was the Bledisloe Cup FFS.
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Post by nuuumannn on Sept 26, 2013 20:45:10 GMT 12
Well, I for one am not miserable as a result of not winning, but let's face it, winning the America's Cup IS a big deal. Look at the odds, very slim; it's not a sport where sportsmanship, fair play and an even playing field have anything to do with the end result. Winning the America's Cup is all about honour; it's hard work and New Zealand fielding a team proves that we can and do punch above our weight on the world sporting stage. It is something to be proud of.
Having a bit of interest in this; I did enjoy watching it, bar the awful TVNZ commentary, it is unfortunate for the sport that America maintained the cup again; the only way the competition is going to change is if it is wrested from the Americans. I wonder who'll be the next to do that? I think a lot of people involved in the America's Cup were rooting for the Kiwis because they knew that if we did win, then the race would change for the better.
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Post by kiwithrottlejockey on Sept 27, 2013 9:29:04 GMT 12
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Post by Dave Homewood on Sept 27, 2013 16:26:46 GMT 12
Yep, and there's some real sport coming up tomorrow. C'mon the All Blacks!
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Post by TS on Sept 27, 2013 22:47:11 GMT 12
Kiwis need to get a grip, all this misery is ridiculous, we haven't lost anything important. It's not as if it was the Bledisloe Cup FFS. Well I may be wrong here but didn't we feel miserable when we lost the Rugby World Cup or came close to winning it but choked?? But it seems to be ok if we get all glum if we don't win a Rugby match, go figure!! You see I personnally don't give a rats about Rugby. But I do about sailing as I have said before each to their own. Buy the way we have lost millions of dollars in Tourism and having NZ on the world stage again because we lost.
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Post by steveh on Sept 27, 2013 22:55:16 GMT 12
I 'spose it is inevitable that after beginning as a farce but then transitioning thru elation & excitement, nail biting apprehension to gloom & despair we're back to farce. As weheka said above, why did it take so long to tell us about the automatic foiling system. For only one team to have that is a bit like only one team in a car race having a turbo'd motor, not really a level playing field. I'd like to see the worlds yachting nations refuse to race Oracle until a set of rules is sorted out & a class of boats agreed on that is agreeable to all & something that money cannot influence through the regatta as most surely happened in this event. Steve.
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Post by beagle on Sept 27, 2013 23:02:11 GMT 12
Just watching 7 Days on TV3 and they were joking around saying if it cost around 130 million, why the hell didn't it have an outboard on it to beat Oracle.
Easily answered. not even an outboard would have pushed it along at 40 knots or so.
Magical boats, but alas to carry on with them the costs are too much. Pretty sure heard Russell Coutts say a few weeks ago that maybe to cut costs they should have gone with a 60 or 62 footer.
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Post by TS on Sept 27, 2013 23:08:26 GMT 12
TNZ did know about the automatic foiling system but couldn't get it to work properly or didn't have the money to. And yes they should make these boat 60 feet it will lower the costs dramaticly.
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Post by phil82 on Sept 28, 2013 5:38:32 GMT 12
If you think the reaction in NZ is a bit over the top,that from some media in the UK has been hilarious. One paper claimed Ainslie was the sole reason Oracle won, and that made him the greatest Englishman since Nelson! This triumphalism from the Pom press was short-lived because the article was removed the next day, after a number of readers pointed out that the UK had never won the America's Cup!
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Post by nuuumannn on Sept 29, 2013 3:10:10 GMT 12
The American's are going to find it hard to find opposition willing to take them on, but that will probably serve to their advantage.
I hear you, Steve, the fact is that if it were a level playing field and identical boats were used and the rules abided by, then ETNZ would have won hands down. They were better, more consistent sailors and made fewer errors on the water, but a level playing field is not what the America's Cup is about. It is about winning at all costs. This is not the first time this has happened and it is because it is such an unfair competition it makes winning it all the more prestigious. If ETNZ did win, it would have been a triumph for fair play and skilled yachting in a decidely unfair competition. There's no second prize in America's Cup racing, only a winner and a loser. Oy vey; there's always the next one.
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Post by kiwithrottlejockey on Sept 29, 2013 12:48:48 GMT 12
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Post by kiwithrottlejockey on Sept 30, 2013 20:50:22 GMT 12
(click on the cartoon to read the news story)
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