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Post by ngatimozart on Sept 8, 2011 21:50:31 GMT 12
Well considering it is supposed to election year (after the RWC) instead of just of complaining about what we haven't got shouldn't we be making noises? Do people actually realise the number of platforms that NZDF have that are due for replacement in the next 10 years? The cost amounts to billions. I don't see the RNZAF Assn or the RNZRSA making any noises about the lack of resourcing for defence. Actually is the RNZAF Assn still around? Those organisations should be lobbying on behalf of our people in uniform as well as those of us who have served. How can you expect our people to do a proper job if they've got crap kit? Think back to 2000 / 2001 when the RNZAF got castrated by the then PM with the axing of the ACF. That was a political move made because she saw an opportunity and the anti- military movement was in full cry. The media saw it as being "sexy" and we ended up with one sided coverage.
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Post by mileater on Sept 17, 2011 12:39:46 GMT 12
Meh! No new aircraft until 2025 when the dust has settled over the introduction of the new fling-wing fleet! We may get to keep the 757s for a few more years, too.
I don't think we need to hold our breath over any election year promises for a while!
Cheers,
Allan
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2011 14:22:25 GMT 12
Actually Allan this was said on the RNZAF website "By 2014 we will introduce into service 28 new or upgraded aircraft, across our six different fleets. At the same time we will develop the capacity and skills of our people to ensure we operate these aircraft to their maximum potential, and continue to provide military air operations and support for our country" so we will be getting new aircraft before 2025... Also the NZ Defence white Paper said something about the replacement of both the C-130 and P-3 in 5 years time.
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Post by stereoimage on Sept 19, 2011 15:54:08 GMT 12
Heres my pick for the whole shebang! I know this is pointless and some people find this kind of thing annoying, but it is fun... (Maybe if we stopped giving our nations resources away to foreign corporations for a meager %1 royalty and exported/refined it all ourselves we could fund it too?) KC-390 x 4 (Tactical/Strategic Transport)  C-295 x 3 (Tactical Transport)  C-212M x 3 (Training / Transport)  C-212 MP/SAR (Short range maritime patrol & SAR)  C-295 MPA/ASW x 5 (Long range maritime patrol & SAR)  Bombardier 415 MP x 2 (SAR/MP/Fire Bomber)  EC-295 AEW&C x 2 (AEW / ISR / ELINT)  E190 x 2 (VIP)  EMB-314 x 18 (Training / FAC / COIN)  JAS-39 NG Gripen x 12 (CAS/ASuW/BAI/CAP)  AW-159 BRH x 9  AW-159 SCMR x 9  AW-101 CSAR x 4  NH-90 x 12  AW109 x 9  |
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mroz
Flying Officer
Posts: 65
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Post by mroz on Sept 23, 2011 17:34:52 GMT 12
As some general background given this particular topic - today, Australia announced the [likely] purchase of a 6th Globemaster. (I also made a point of this on the "ANZAC Board").
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mroz
Flying Officer
Posts: 65
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Post by mroz on Sept 23, 2011 17:44:29 GMT 12
Personally, I feel if NZ was to re-enter fast jets, the Gripen would be the way to go, but highly unlikely. It is more likely, that NZ will await a yet to be built 5th gen "light" fighter. Time will tell - sorry to be "off topic" - just because the plane is noted above.
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Post by beagle on Sept 23, 2011 19:13:43 GMT 12
I hear rumours that the German Air Force wants to sell it's first 4-5 A400's.
do you hear that John, maybe a good discount price..
but just thinking if we did that whats the guts regards spares , training etc
Would Airbus like that.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2011 21:47:41 GMT 12
Why are the Luftwaffe selling their first 4-5 A400m's? They are only just new aren't they? yet they are already selling them?
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Post by ErrolC on Sept 23, 2011 22:37:07 GMT 12
Why are the Luftwaffe selling their first 4-5 A400m's? They are only just new aren't they? yet they are already selling them? I assume for the same reason that the RAF are selling Typhoons to the Saudis - they are obliged to buy them due to international production agreement, but don't have the money to own/operate them. |
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Post by stereoimage on Sept 24, 2011 1:32:47 GMT 12
If Germany gives its first orders away to another customer, 'who needs an quick delivery or will buy something else', the Germans will get their next aircraft very cheaply and make on the deal  Its kind of like a back-hander from airbus... This kind of thing happens regularly with civilian orders "If you help us please this new customer by allowing us to give them some of your order, we will give you a big discount" |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2011 10:29:20 GMT 12
Ahhhh i see thanks for that ErrolC and stereoimage. I would love it if we got A400m's
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Post by guest on Sept 24, 2011 12:12:01 GMT 12
Too high on the risk factor, perhaps?
Costly too. Are we going to send half the unit all the way to Europe for conversion training on simulators, or buy one too?
it is a good European theatre aircraft, but to quote the airline model, we are long and thin.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2011 12:45:04 GMT 12
Why would it be risky...? That is for the airliners, the A400m has a bigger cargo bay than the C-130 is both width (4m compared to 3.1m) and length (17.71m compared to 12.1m). Plus it has a much higher cruising speed of 780 km/h compared to the 555km/h of the herc. It does however have a smaller range than the C-130 by about 500km or so. It has a substantially higher amount of power with a collective 44,000hp (for all 4 turboprops together) compared to 19,600hp (for all 4 turboprops together) of the herc. The A400m will probably have a higher running cost then the herc, but just like the iroquois and the NH90, most aircraft are more capable than the older aircraft and therefore will cost more to run. Anyway thats my view on the topic, i think the A400m would be perfect for the RNZAF. I guess we will hopefully soon hear about the herc's replacement, so excited  |
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Post by Dave Homewood on Sept 24, 2011 14:00:20 GMT 12
I doubt very much the Hercules will be replaced for decades considering they are currently rebuilding them in an upgrade programme that will extend their life and capability, and considering NZ is broke.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2011 16:04:35 GMT 12
This is quoted from the RNZAF website "Currently the aircraft are undergoing a modernisation and structural improvement programme to ensure that last until 2015." So maybe not Dave hopefully not anyway haha link the the source www.airforce.mil.nz/about-us/aircraft/hercules.htm |
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Post by guest on Sept 24, 2011 17:59:23 GMT 12
Here are some facts and figures from the Ministry of Defence website. They manage procurement. I cant see anyone approving $247m for a four year investment. C-130 will be around for a while yet. Note that only 20% of the fleet have been returned to service, so it will be a while before the others have been upgraded, I would wager. www.defence.govt.nz/acquisitions-tenders/current-acquisition-projects/c130-life-extension.htmlDescription
Life extension programme for the five C-130H Hercules aircraft operated by the Royal New Zealand Air Force. The scope of the project is the replacement of specific mechanical, avionic, and structural components, and the design and installation of flight deck communications and navigation improvements to meet evolving air traffic management regulations.
Government approval
In December 2004 the Government approved a project budget of NZ$226 million excluding GST.
In May 2007 the Government approved a further $21.2million excluding GST to upgrade the self-protection system fitted to the aircraft.
Contract
A contract was signed in December 2004 with L-3 Communications Spar Aerospace of Edmonton Canada. Following the closure of the contractor, the contract was assigned to L-3IS of Waco Texas. The first two aircraft were modified in Canada and testing continued in Texas.
In mid 2010, L-3, the Ministry of Defence and Safe Air Limited reached an agreement for the Ministry of Defence to take over the management of the production phase for the upgrade of the remaining three aircraft.
Work commenced on the first of these three aircraft at RNZAF Base Woodbourne in March 2011.
Aviation Labour Group has been appointed as principal labour provider for the programme. Safe Air will continue to provide support services.
Current status
Aircraft NZ7004 was delivered to the RNZAF on 8 October 2010.
Aircraft NZ7003 was delivered to the RNZAF on 12 November 2010. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2011 19:38:05 GMT 12
Hmmm i just tried to find it, but was not successful but i read somewhere possibly the White paper or 2011 strategic plan, that they were looking to replace the hercs around 2017.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Sept 24, 2011 20:41:23 GMT 12
The White Paper is merely recommendations.
The reality of RNZAF procurement is and always has been that it takes a lot longer to replace anything than they initially estimate. For example they were talking about finding a replacement for the Skyhawks in 1976!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2011 21:24:38 GMT 12
Oh right ok hahaha maybe not then  I hope (and by hope i mean bloody hope) that they stick to this recommendation. Thanks for the advice/info Dave |
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Post by conman on Sept 25, 2011 9:21:24 GMT 12
Why would it be risky...? That is for the airliners, the A400m has a bigger cargo bay than the C-130 is both width (4m compared to 3.1m) and length (17.71m compared to 12.1m). Plus it has a much higher cruising speed of 780 km/h compared to the 555km/h of the herc. It does however have a smaller range than the C-130 by about 500km or so. It has a substantially higher amount of power with a collective 44,000hp (for all 4 turboprops together) compared to 19,600hp (for all 4 turboprops together) of the herc. The A400m will probably have a higher running cost then the herc, but just like the iroquois and the NH90, most aircraft are more capable than the older aircraft and therefore will cost more to run. Anyway thats my view on the topic, i think the A400m would be perfect for the RNZAF. I guess we will hopefully soon hear about the herc's replacement, so excited I believe the range for an equivalent load is much superior for the A400, the ferry range of the C-130 may be more but that is pretty academic, as you don't generally fly these aircraft around empty |
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Its kind of like a back-hander from airbus... This kind of thing happens regularly with civilian orders "If you help us please this new customer by allowing us to give them some of your order, we will give you a big discount" 
I hope (and by hope i mean bloody hope) that they stick to this recommendation. Thanks for the advice/info Dave 