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Post by ErrolC on May 17, 2023 18:23:26 GMT 12
Number 3 due Friday
Our third P-8A is en route home to Aotearoa New Zealand, having taken flight from it’s nest in the United States today. The aircraft is due to touch down at #BaseOhakea on Friday.
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Post by tbf2504 on May 18, 2023 10:33:58 GMT 12
would appear from a posting on the 5 Squadron facebook page that NZ4803 is on its way and is probably at this time in Hawaii C/S POSIDN 01
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Post by 11SQNLDR on May 18, 2023 12:02:36 GMT 12
I wonder if there's enough crews to man all 3 at once  |
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Post by ErrolC on May 18, 2023 12:30:18 GMT 12
Heading for Fiji
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Post by ajmcg on May 18, 2023 22:40:20 GMT 12
NZ4803 delivered to RNZAF on 16 May 2023
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Post by camtech on May 19, 2023 11:58:14 GMT 12
Overhead Auckland at 32,000ft
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Post by tbf2504 on May 19, 2023 13:38:56 GMT 12
I guess we can update the AF380 now les
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Post by camtech on May 19, 2023 21:20:01 GMT 12
I note on the Boeing production list that NZ4803 no longer appears, and when it was there, did not show its Line No, as the other three aircraft do. Odd.
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Post by ErrolC on Jul 1, 2023 19:16:21 GMT 12
IOC 1st July www.nzdf.mil.nz/media-centre/news/p-8a-poseidon-take-over-key-air-force-roles/P-8A Poseidon take over key Air Force roles After four years preparing to operate and maintain the new Royal New Zealand Air Force (RNZAF) P-8A Poseidon maritime patrol aircraft, today is the day the new capability is formally released and becomes available for operational tasks. 01 JULY, 2023 After four years preparing to operate and maintain the new Royal New Zealand Air Force (RNZAF) P-8A Poseidon maritime patrol aircraft, today is the day the new capability is formally released and becomes available for operational tasking. Chief of Air Force Air Vice-Marshal Andrew Clark said the new fleet’s introduction into service marks the beginning of a new era. “New Zealand’s maritime security is central to our wider security. The Poseidon is the latest in a series of aircraft going back to the early days of the RNZAF that have kept watch from the air – securing our maritime resources, defending our region against military threats, building regional resilience, preventing trans-national crime, and of course carrying out search and rescue and humanitarian aid and disaster relief missions. “In the Poseidon fleet, we now have the modern standard in technology to perform these crucial roles. The Poseidon has the breadth of versatility and the depth of capability required for the job in today’s complex security environment,” he said. The P-8A aircraft are operated by No. 5 Squadron and replace the P-3K2 Orions, which served New Zealand for 57 years. No. 5 Squadron Commanding Officer, Wing Commander Mark Whiteside, said achieving readiness to undertake operations was the culmination of years of hard work from a wide range of people. “Right from the start, we knew that people would be at the heart of this generational change; that every trade in our Squadron, in the air and on the ground, and others on base with us who are involved in what we do, would be needed to put us on the mark to begin operations on time, and so it has proved to be,” he said. “I am extremely proud of all our aviators as we begin this new era – they have worked hard, and now they will be able to see all that effort pay off as the P-8As start work.” To accommodate the introduction of the new aircraft, No. 5 Squadron has moved from RNZAF Base Auckland at Whenuapai where the P-3K2 Orions were based, to Base Ohakea in Manawatū. |
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Post by snafu on Jul 4, 2023 18:38:46 GMT 12
IOC 1st July www.nzdf.mil.nz/media-centre/news/p-8a-poseidon-take-over-key-air-force-roles/P-8A Poseidon take over key Air Force roles After four years preparing to operate and maintain the new Royal New Zealand Air Force (RNZAF) P-8A Poseidon maritime patrol aircraft, today is the day the new capability is formally released and becomes available for operational tasks. 01 JULY, 2023 After four years preparing to operate and maintain the new Royal New Zealand Air Force (RNZAF) P-8A Poseidon maritime patrol aircraft, today is the day the new capability is formally released and becomes available for operational tasking. Chief of Air Force Air Vice-Marshal Andrew Clark said the new fleet’s introduction into service marks the beginning of a new era. “New Zealand’s maritime security is central to our wider security. The Poseidon is the latest in a series of aircraft going back to the early days of the RNZAF that have kept watch from the air – securing our maritime resources, defending our region against military threats, building regional resilience, preventing trans-national crime, and of course carrying out search and rescue and humanitarian aid and disaster relief missions. “In the Poseidon fleet, we now have the modern standard in technology to perform these crucial roles. The Poseidon has the breadth of versatility and the depth of capability required for the job in today’s complex security environment,” he said. The P-8A aircraft are operated by No. 5 Squadron and replace the P-3K2 Orions, which served New Zealand for 57 years. No. 5 Squadron Commanding Officer, Wing Commander Mark Whiteside, said achieving readiness to undertake operations was the culmination of years of hard work from a wide range of people. “Right from the start, we knew that people would be at the heart of this generational change; that every trade in our Squadron, in the air and on the ground, and others on base with us who are involved in what we do, would be needed to put us on the mark to begin operations on time, and so it has proved to be,” he said. “I am extremely proud of all our aviators as we begin this new era – they have worked hard, and now they will be able to see all that effort pay off as the P-8As start work.” To accommodate the introduction of the new aircraft, No. 5 Squadron has moved from RNZAF Base Auckland at Whenuapai where the P-3K2 Orions were based, to Base Ohakea in Manawatū. Whilst the aircraft themselves have more capabilty, but one has to question is the Airforce more capable with only 4 aircraft instead of 6? |
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Post by camtech on Jul 4, 2023 20:46:06 GMT 12
I guess the argument of 4 aircraft against 6 is that the 4 are new, more reliable, more capable, smaller crews so a similar operational footprint with less input required. Just my very simplistic view.
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Post by ErrolC on Jul 4, 2023 23:06:30 GMT 12
I guess the argument of 4 aircraft against 6 is that the 4 are new, more reliable, more capable, smaller crews so a similar operational footprint with less input required. Just my very simplistic view. And with a proper simulator basically all flights will be operational ones, |
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Post by gibbo on Jul 5, 2023 9:37:59 GMT 12
I guess the argument of 4 aircraft against 6 is that the 4 are new, more reliable, more capable, smaller crews so a similar operational footprint with less input required. Just my very simplistic view. And with a proper simulator basically all flights will be operational ones, Yes indeed Errol, the simulator will make a significant difference as although obviously not the equivalent of an aircraft in the sky, a quick 'google' shows the US Navy state that 70% of their P8 training needs are able to be met in sims, including the maintenance training sim which the RNZAF are getting too. Apparently for the USN they calculated around 30% odd was met by 'on ground' training for their P3's... no reason to assume that would be anything widely different off that mark for the RNZAF. Sims of course reduce the number of training flights (can never be zero) but that in turn will flow thru to maintenance cycles, in fact the USN boasted of availability rates in the mid-high 90's in the first few years of P8 operation from what I remember reading somewhere. Sims also of course allow full-immersion training of much higher risk in-flight scenarios which will benefit crewing standards. My only bug-bear is that the EMAC complimentary MPA project is stalled, or maybe so de-scoped that it won't effectively address the need to provide a complimentary capability to allow the P8 to do more sharp-end taskings with the EMAC platform doing the bread & butter shorter range SAR & EEZ patrol etc. In the short term it sounds like the RNZAF wouldn't be able to crew another fleet so with any luck as the P8A beds into 5Sqn service the defence review will reinforce the need for the EMAC project and will deliver another capability that will bed in as P8 availability starts to possibly wane a little and crewing constraints are (hopefully) addressed. |
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Post by ajmcg on Jul 5, 2023 15:36:48 GMT 12
The problem with 4 aircraft is that we plan to use them for the next 30 years. Having 6 P-8’s would mean that the hours to be flown would be spread over more aircraft and we could get 30 years out of them.
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Post by madmac on Jul 5, 2023 22:31:42 GMT 12
The problem with 4 aircraft is that we plan to use them for the next 30 years. Having 6 P-8’s would mean that the hours to be flown would be spread over more aircraft and we could get 30 years out of them. The problem with 4 airframes is, ten years in, whats the dispatch rate doing to be, if its 80%, 1 in 25 missions is going to be on the 3rd airframe they power up that morning, if one is in maintenance and another waiting to relieved from station (or what ever), 1 in 25 missions won't be launching. Critical fleet mass is a very real very multi faceted problem. They have already been here before with the P-3 fleet its Ok we are smarter this time! |
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Post by nighthawknz on Jul 6, 2023 6:06:42 GMT 12
The problem with 4 aircraft is that we plan to use them for the next 30 years. Having 6 P-8’s would mean that the hours to be flown would be spread over more aircraft and we could get 30 years out of them. The problem with 4 airframes is, ten years in, whats the dispatch rate doing to be, if its 80%, 1 in 25 missions is going to be on the 3rd airframe they power up that morning, if one is in maintenance and another waiting to relieved from station (or what ever), 1 in 25 missions won't be launching. Critical fleet mass is a very real very multi faceted problem. They have already been here before with the P-3 fleet its Ok we are smarter this time! They are suppose to be offsetting some of the standard patrols the P3's did with Long Range Drones and only using the P8's for the high operational envirioments probably like South China Sea... whether this happens or not we will have to wait and see. |
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Post by kiwirob on Jul 6, 2023 18:09:52 GMT 12
The problem with 4 airframes is, ten years in, whats the dispatch rate doing to be, if its 80%, 1 in 25 missions is going to be on the 3rd airframe they power up that morning, if one is in maintenance and another waiting to relieved from station (or what ever), 1 in 25 missions won't be launching. Critical fleet mass is a very real very multi faceted problem. They have already been here before with the P-3 fleet its Ok we are smarter this time! They are suppose to be offsetting some of the standard patrols the P3's did with Long Range Drones and only using the P8's for the high operational envirioments probably like South China Sea... whether this happens or not we will have to wait and see. Why on earth would we be operating anywhere near the South China Sea? As for fleet numbers we always make this mistake, only 2 frigates when we should have had 3, the 2 have been flogged, only 5 Seasprites in the first batch when we should have 8, only 8 NH90's which are the highest hour fleet of any NH90 users, maybe we rectify this by buying some of the retiring Australian NH90's. |
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Post by nighthawknz on Jul 7, 2023 5:37:03 GMT 12
They are suppose to be offsetting some of the standard patrols the P3's did with Long Range Drones and only using the P8's for the high operational envirioments probably like South China Sea... whether this happens or not we will have to wait and see. Why on earth would we be operating anywhere near the South China Sea? As for fleet numbers we always make this mistake, only 2 frigates when we should have had 3, the 2 have been flogged, only 5 Seasprites in the first batch when we should have 8, only 8 NH90's which are the highest hour fleet of any NH90 users, maybe we rectify this by buying some of the retiring Australian NH90's. ie; the P3's were regularly deployed to the SCS as part of the UN sanctions on North Korea. Not saying that they are there all the time but we deploy regularly there. When one is on station there leaving three here the drones are suppose to take up the slack of regular boarder patrols... My point these deployments are what the P8's will concentrate on.
But will also do the standard S&R and patrols as well... and they are already doing this...
We all know 4 is not enough there may be a chance more get ordered (I doubt it... but there is an outside chance) as 5 years down the track four air frames means only one fully servicable with a 2nd in light maintenace the other 2 in deep maintenance etc... we all know thisAnd for the record ... Totally agree with the numbers... - Personally I want us to get back to a minimum of a 4 frigate navy with the Patrol Squadron of the OPV's and IPV's and Auxiliary fleet. I also want the Frigates to at least have more than the pengiun Missile maybe its bigger brother like the Naval Strike Missile etc
- As for P-8A's yes I wanted 6 plus the said drones.
- C-130j-30 would have preferred 6 but also wish they got a strategic lifter as well that can carry the NH-90 and LAV and Bushmasters to anywhere in the world... Going forward possibly like a few of Japaness C-2 added to the fleet;
- and to be fair I am undecided on the replacing of the B-757's
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Post by ErrolC on Jul 7, 2023 10:55:04 GMT 12
We all know 4 is not enough there may be a chance more get ordered (I doubt it... but there is an outside chance) as 5 years down the track four air frames means only one fully servicable with a 2nd in light maintenace the other 2 in deep maintenance etc... we all know thisOne of the issues is the single low-rate production facility for the 737NG (ie not MAX) airframes, used for P-8s and E-7s. I'm sure Boeing would like someone to pay for the certification of MAX-based versions of these so they can convert that plant to something else. But soon-ish if anyone wants extra P-8s they have to work around whatever P-8s the USN gets AND the USAF replacing the E-3s. |
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Post by phil on Jul 7, 2023 17:54:42 GMT 12
RAAF are getting two more, upping their fleet to 14.
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