|
|
Post by 30sqnatc on Jul 29, 2023 19:10:24 GMT 12
It would be nice if instead of using the NZ$2.436 billion figure, they would split it between infrastructure replacement program and the actual cost of the aircraft. Why do you believe the infrastructure cost is not a valid part of the cost of the P8? capability It is paid for with real capital Defence $ that are then not available for other defence projects. Intergrated Logisitics Support which includes infrastructure is key to successful through life management of these aircraft. Or do you what them sitting outside under a Warehouse blue tarp? |
|
|
|
Post by madmac on Jul 30, 2023 13:58:05 GMT 12
Why do you believe the infrastructure cost is not a valid part of the cost of the P8? capability It is paid for with real capital Defence $ that are then not available for other defence projects. Intergrated Logisitics Support which includes infrastructure is key to successful through life management of these aircraft. Or do you what them sitting outside under a Warehouse blue tarp? Because if the Defence force wasn't run with an infra-structure deficient, much of that cost would have already have been paid for. Longer runways, hangars that aren't a health and safety hazard etc, all contribute to operational capacity beyond just the RNZAF's P-8's. The second point being the associated cost is largely fixed regardless of the numbers of airframes operated and significant when compared to the cost of the actual airframes. |
|
ajmcg
Flight Sergeant
Posts: 25
|
Post by ajmcg on Aug 4, 2023 17:26:44 GMT 12
Perhaps Andrew Little’s new defence plan will allow an increase in P-8 numbers to allow for combat readiness as well as SAR and Govt mission readiness. Maybe even delivering Harpoon missiles to enable anti surface war mission.
|
|
|
|
Post by alanster on Aug 4, 2023 19:28:20 GMT 12
|
|
|
|
Post by 11SQNLDR on Aug 5, 2023 12:18:18 GMT 12
And they've only just cottoned on to this?  As usual with this mob too little too late. The country is broke but this type of spend simply can't wait so here's hoping the new Govt will get the ball rolling post October. Any I'm sure the wokester bulls#*t ads aren't pulling in the recruits either   Back to the topic - great to see the final P-8 has touched down, here's hoping there's enough crews to keep the fleet airborne. |
|
|
|
Post by snafu on Aug 5, 2023 17:27:36 GMT 12
And they've only just cottoned on to this? As usual with this mob too little too late. The country is broke but this type of spend simply can't wait so here's hoping the new Govt will get the ball rolling post October. Any I'm sure the wokester bulls#*t ads aren't pulling in the recruits either Back to the topic - great to see the final P-8 has touched down, here's hoping there's enough crews to keep the fleet airborne. Its show no substance just like the ALP and the DSR |
|
|
|
Post by alanster on Aug 5, 2023 20:45:28 GMT 12
And they've only just cottoned on to this? As usual with this mob too little too late. The country is broke but this type of spend simply can't wait so here's hoping the new Govt will get the ball rolling post October.. Tbf they’ve been moving in this direction ever since the Labour-NZF-Greens govt released a rather beefed up defence capability plan in 2019. That 2019 plan was much more meatier than anything National came up with in 9 years of govt and certainly anything from Helen Clark’s “benign strategic environment” years. Earlier in the year, Peeni Henare stated (a first for any defence minister in 20 years) that the Airforce could have a combat wing once again. Not even Ron Mark said anything like that. Yesterday, once and for all, Andrew Little put the nail in the coffin to the “benign strategic environment” and slammed it shut. It’s a historic shift in rhetoric. The first ever National Security Strategy for NZ announced yesterday even veered into the territory of increased military cooperation with the US and other (ie: AUKUS) allies - something that drew a rebuke from Helen Clark on Twitter. |
|
|
|
Post by Antonio on Aug 6, 2023 9:39:04 GMT 12
But when asked by a reporter that meant the return of the Air Force combat wing, Little slammed that door shut with an emphatic NO.
|
|
ajmcg
Flight Sergeant
Posts: 25
|
Post by ajmcg on Aug 6, 2023 12:55:22 GMT 12
In terms of combat wing a P-8 with harpoon missiles would be an effective combat force as they are with torpedoes. Air Force personnel would have possibly covered middle launch training under US Navy courses. Harpoons for the P-8 would be cheaper and more feasible. Only time the Skyhawks fired their guns in anger was against a fleeing fishing trawler outrunning our navy.
|
|
|
|
Post by machina on Aug 6, 2023 14:32:27 GMT 12
But when asked by a reporter that meant the return of the Air Force combat wing, Little slammed that door shut with an emphatic NO. Not to derail this thread but I don’t think a return of fighters can be expected any time soon even with the move towards a realistic world view and the (hopefully) resulting investment. A couple more P-8s before the line closes, a commitment to EMAC and sorting the navy’s combat vessels would be a good start and one we should probably be happy with |
|
|
|
Post by skyhawkdon on Aug 6, 2023 15:57:04 GMT 12
In terms of combat wing a P-8 with harpoon missiles would be an effective combat force as they are with torpedoes. Air Force personnel would have possibly covered middle launch training under US Navy courses. Harpoons for the P-8 would be cheaper and more feasible. Only time the Skyhawks fired their guns in anger was against a fleeing fishing trawler outrunning our navy. A bit hard to fire a warning shot with a Harpoon! Not to mention the phycological threat and message of intent a noisy, low flying jet has. You don't need to "fire your guns in anger" to be a successful deterrent. |
|
|
|
Post by snafu on Aug 6, 2023 20:53:31 GMT 12
But when asked by a reporter that meant the return of the Air Force combat wing, Little slammed that door shut with an emphatic NO. Not to derail this thread but I don’t think a return of fighters can be expected any time soon even with the move towards a realistic world view and the (hopefully) resulting investment. A couple more P-8s before the line closes, a commitment to EMAC and sorting the navy’s combat vessels would be a good start and one we should probably be happy with I personally think the trigger to return to a ACF would be a naval/aircraft expansion by the Chinese in the Solomons either by rotation of ships/submarines or aircraft or permanently based, but by that time the horse has well and truly bolted and most likely far too late unless the RNZAF actively recruits' pilots to help any shortages in the RAAF with a view to starting a ACF within the next 10 years. What this comes down to is how far do the NZ politicians value Australia as a defence ally and the reality of a direct or indirect threat to Australia is also a threat to NZ. I suspect with USN/RN submarine rotations the Chinese in the future could start to aggressively patrol Australian strategic space in the Indian and Coral Seas when an east coast submarine base opens. This is not to suggest that NZ will with coalition force directly confront the Chinese but what it actually does, and NZ have been doing for some time is releive pressure for allied nations so it can relief for ADF force to move forward whilst give some protection to Australian territory or provide escorts. What has not been disclosed what are the red lines that NZ will accept to challenges of security to its SLOC and any increase in grey zone expansion in the coral sea. |
|
|
|
Post by camtech on Aug 7, 2023 12:02:45 GMT 12
This thread has drifted into a discussion on NZ's future strategic focus, rather than the thread title. Start a new thread for this line of discussion, as it has interest, but little relevance.
|
|
|
|
Post by Antonio on Aug 7, 2023 13:33:09 GMT 12
Back on track.
Are the new 5 Sqn facilities ready or are the P-8's still at 3 Hangar?
Is it correct that the facilities are capable of housing just 4 aircraft?
|
|
|
|
Post by tfly on Aug 9, 2023 21:42:27 GMT 12
A wee bit off track but was in. Pub in Findhorn yesterday and came across this! Any chance with nearly all the five eyes operating the P8A that they will start competing for the Findcastle Trophy again. I’d love to see an RNZAF P8A in Lossiemouth 🙃 en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fincastle_Trophy |
|
|
|
Post by jimtheeagle on Aug 9, 2023 22:31:03 GMT 12
I interviewed the OC of 201 Sqn in March last year and he said: "There's definitely an aspiration [to bring back the Fincastle Trophy]. It's not quite as much as a plan yet but there is definitely an aspiration to do that. Because that that level of competition is very healthy and makes us all better." So yeah, but not yet.
On the hangar question, the facility for the P-8s at Lossiemouth can only house three of nine aircraft. They plan to expand it to look after the E-7 Wedgetails, but most aircraft are going to be outside most of the time.
JT
|
|
|
|
Post by ErrolC on Nov 10, 2023 15:33:56 GMT 12
Doing the job. www.nzdf.mil.nz/media-centre/news/rnzaf-poseidon-finds-suspect-fishing-boats-in-vast-pacific-ocean-search/The latest deployment of the Royal New Zealand Air Force (RNZAF) P-8A Poseidon to a multinational fisheries operation has identified 74 fishing vessels in a vast search area. Of the 74, three were identified as being of interest for potential breaches of fishing regulations and reported to the Pacific Forum Fisheries Agency (FFA). The two-week Operation Kurukuru focussed on the Exclusive Economic Zones (EEZs) and adjacent high seas pockets of the Cook Islands, Fiji, Federated States of Micronesia, Kiribati, Nauru, Niue, Palau, Papua New Guinea, Nauru, Republic of Marshall Islands, Solomon Islands, Tuvalu, Tokelau, Tonga and Vanuatu - an area covering approximately 21.3 million square kilometres. |
|
|
|
Post by Dave Homewood on Nov 10, 2023 16:52:09 GMT 12
Good stuff, well done No. 5 Squadron.
|
|
|
|
Post by ErrolC on Apr 16, 2024 14:42:02 GMT 12
|
|
|
|
Post by pepe on Apr 17, 2024 9:37:33 GMT 12
I note from the 2018 Cabinet purchase approval papers, the MOD states that the Increment 3, Block 2 upgrade is planned to commence in 2026 and be completed around 2029. The cost of the upgrade was not included in the initial capital investment.
|
|
