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Post by frankly on Dec 14, 2018 6:53:04 GMT 12
I'd heard two options were on the table, the other being to incorporate runway extension into a roading project to bypass Sanson and Bulls (i.e shift SH1). That one may have died a death when the Nats didn't get re-elected. It would have tied on the North of Levin to Sanson RONS project.
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Post by ErrolC on Dec 14, 2018 8:48:45 GMT 12
Given the Nats hadn't actually said how they were going to fund RONS2, it's optimistic to say it died a death - more they were trying for conception but weren't successful?
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Post by nige on Dec 20, 2018 20:40:58 GMT 12
Hi folks, the NZ Parliament website has a Report of the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee uploaded 18 Dec which amongst its content mentions: "Use of Ohakea airbase by Singaporean air force The possibility of allowing Singapore’s air force to use Ohakea airbase has been discussed with Singaporean officials, and at ministerial level, at several international defence forums. We were told that several options for Singaporean basing are being considered and a proposal will be brought to the Government for a final decision in the next three months. We note that Singaporean citizens are not subject to the provisions of the Overseas Investment Amendment Act 2018, so this legislation would not create complications if there were a need to purchase properties to house Singaporean personnel." Source: www.parliament.nz/resource/en-NZ/SCR_82633/fd9112afa12a5378e0f0f6ec042ce3a7f7d87631 |
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Post by saratoga on Dec 20, 2018 20:50:56 GMT 12
Why would they need to purchase?, this sort of situation is usually catered by leasing.
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Post by nige on Dec 20, 2018 21:37:30 GMT 12
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Post by saratoga on Dec 20, 2018 21:41:48 GMT 12
I'd guess the options would be something like, full time based, dry based, wet based, rotational basing?
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Post by skyhawkdon on Dec 21, 2018 6:45:52 GMT 12
All 2 Sqn personnel posted to Nowra were either accomodated on base in barracks (if single) or off and on base in the RAN married quarters. No one purchased their own home while there that I know of, but there was nothing stopping you if you wanted to. But why would you when the RAN were providing a fully furnished house, rent free, including power, phone and gas! It was a sweet deal.
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Post by ErrolC on Dec 21, 2018 7:13:02 GMT 12
Not happening www.newsroom.co.nz/@pro/2018/12/20/371105/singapore-f-15-base-scrapped-for-ohakeaSingapore F-15 base scrapped for Ohakea The Government has scrapped plans to create a base for a squadron of Singaporean fighter jets, citing the excessive costs involved. However, New Zealand may yet host the country’s fighter aircraft, albeit for short periods, with Defence Minister Ron Mark instructing officials to look into what is possible. In early 2017, the National government announced it was speaking to Singapore about setting up a permanent training base at Ohakea for one of that country’s F-15 fighter jet squadrons. But its successor has now confirmed the idea won't get off the ground. ... |
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Post by Dave Homewood on Dec 21, 2018 9:26:14 GMT 12
Well that sucks, but not unexpected from this government....
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Post by Dave Homewood on Dec 21, 2018 10:05:21 GMT 12
So let me get this straight, yesterday a report from the NZ Government website was linked here, and in that report, dated December 2018, states, "We were told that several options for Singaporean basing are being considered and a proposal will be brought to the Government for a final decision in the next three months."
Then today we're told it is announced the deal is off.
Is this another case of the left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing? Or has someone in government decided to prematurely announce it as being all off to kill the project before the actual process that is going on has a chance to reach its conclusion?
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Post by skyhawkdon on Dec 21, 2018 10:11:17 GMT 12
Its normal for Gov'ts to make a flurry of announcements like this just before Christmas so they go off the radar very quickly. Financially this is a big loss for NZ. No doubt another country will step into the void (probably Australia) and reap all the financial benefits.
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Post by saratoga on Dec 21, 2018 10:19:18 GMT 12
Other options are still on the table, just not a permanent base here.
So possibly more 'remote operating' visits.
As we don't have the infrastructure already and no one wants to front up with financing more.
Maybe a couple of open cowsheds on the far side and a couple of 20' ISO containers is about what we could do for them?.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Dec 21, 2018 10:49:09 GMT 12
So where does this leave Ohakea's runway extension? I'm guessing that won't happen now, and therefore is it a case the runway is currently too short for the P-8 Poseidon?
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Post by saratoga on Dec 21, 2018 11:01:19 GMT 12
Seperate issue, the P-8 project has funding for the base/runway upgrades.
I think the problem with the Singapore deal was they would have required hangarage,fuel and maintenance facilities and likley also a timing/timeline problem getting both P-8 infrastructure and RSAF facilities as required.
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Post by Calum on Dec 21, 2018 12:50:16 GMT 12
I assume the Singaporeans weren't going to pay for everything, and with the facilities required to base and operate a Sqn of F 15s being quite extensive and expensive the outcome sounds quite sensible.
As for basing in Australia I'm not sure that's an option nowadays unless they want to go way out in the sticks. Most RAAF bases are also being encroached by urban sprawl or getting more and more RAAF assets based there using up space, Amberley being an example of a place that has grown dramatically with the C17, KC 30 Super Hornet and Growler fleets being there, with the c27s moving there soon as well
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Post by nige on Dec 21, 2018 13:02:23 GMT 12
Gee I thought that the Govt were crowing about surpluses the other day, now it seems they are too tight to put up the funds? What a failure for "pro-defence" NZ First (perhaps this time poor ol' Ron Mark didn't have Winston's backing this time? I'm sure Ron Mark will be gutted as much as us etc).
Saratoga: you mentioned earlier "full time based, dry based, wet based, rotational basing", to the uninitiated like myself what do these terms mean (apart from "full time based" of course), as perhaps these could be some of the options the Govt is now looking at? Either way surely the Govt needs to make some investment even if the Singaporean F-15's are to be visitors (eg hangar space for maintenance, facilities for personnel, spares, stores etc)?
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Post by mcmaster on Dec 21, 2018 14:08:10 GMT 12
Sad news and missed opportunity. Singapore surely would have funded their own facilities and (similar to agreements in Aust At Oakey and Pearce) paid for the use of RNZAF facilities. If the runway is being extended for the P8 anyway, that should not have been an issue. As for short period deployments I assume they would be for exercises, wouldn't they? The RSAF F15's have operated out of Rockhampton airport when their army is at Shoalwater Bay. Calum is dead right that there are capacity constraints as Aus airports add to that the increased USMC and USAF presence in northern Aus.
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Post by saratoga on Dec 21, 2018 16:51:41 GMT 12
Nige,
Along the lines of wet lease(all facilities manned ready for the visitors), dry leased (bare facilities manned on demand),Rotational is the most likely where the Singaporeans are provided facilities ,etc within programmed activites as available.
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Post by gibbo on Dec 21, 2018 18:50:14 GMT 12
Sad news and missed opportunity. Singapore surely would have funded their own facilities and (similar to agreements in Aust At Oakey and Pearce) paid for the use of RNZAF facilities. If the runway is being extended for the P8 anyway, that should not have been an issue. As for short period deployments I assume they would be for exercises, wouldn't they? The RSAF F15's have operated out of Rockhampton airport when their army is at Shoalwater Bay. Calum is dead right that there are capacity constraints as Aus airports add to that the increased USMC and USAF presence in northern Aus. Damn it... very, very annoyed about that call... this would've been a big $$$ earner over it's lifetime. We tend to see this short-term focus daily in NZ now, these would've all been big earning and big spending personnel.  Granted I suspect the costs probably are a lot higher than possibly anticipated, but where there's a will there's usually a way! TBH last time I saw Ohakea from the inside (80th airshow) I was alittle disappointed in what I thought was a quite shabby overall condition of facilities etc, but then I didn't see the new 3 Sqn base nor the new 'terminal'. I don't believe the P8's are really a factor, it's just largely costs & a lack of solid commitment from both NZ & Singapore Govts. As for expecting them on regular deployments... can't see that, they're after a permanent base, once they find somewhere suitable to base these they'll stay there, no need to deploy to NZ (have done so very rarely previously). Gr.... |
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Post by mcmaster on Dec 21, 2018 19:33:12 GMT 12
Hey RSAF, RAAF Williamtown will soon have lots of empty ex Hornet shelters available. Shame, in reality would likely be the last straw for a vocal number in the local community dealing with F35 noise and the water contamination. For lots of others ... bring em in! I think there is one possible basing option in Aus that may tick the boxes. RAAF Tindal has plenty of groundspace well away from urban areas. One RAAF fighter unit permanently insitu to play with. Close to instrumented ranges. Closish to Singa. Downside could be - looks too cozy with US forces in Darwin for Singa, posting may not appeal to families with flies crocs and bats  |
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