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Post by shorty on Jun 15, 2008 17:14:33 GMT 12
I've been "into" old aircraft for nearly 50 years and over that time I've heard many and varied
rumours, a lot of them are the inevitable "aircraft in a big black shed at...."(notice how the sheds
are always black?)
I've heard so many that these days I wait till I hear a similar rumour that could, with a bit of stretch,
be the same thing before I get too interested.
I would be interested if anyone has heard any rumours similar to these:
1.A neighbour was working for a trucking firm on hay work and
reckons on a farm north of Waipara there was the body of a fairly large
(Hudson/C 47 size) aircraft.
2.Some C-47s stored in North Canterbury somewhere. This came from an AHSNZ booklet years ago
(maybe ties in with the above?)
3. A small pre war biplane in a BBS (Big Black Shed!) south of Wanganui
4 A "old aeroplane" in a BBS in the Southern Wairarapa foothills
5.Engines (in packing cases of course!) and aircraft components buried
at Woodbourne/Fairhall
6. A bomber in a lake (one story was that a Kiwi crew flew their lancaster home at the end
of the war and ditched in a lake so as not to get accused of stealing it!)some of theses stories require to suspend your disbelief for a while!
7.Prewar (WW1?) aircraft stored in a shed at Trentham Military Camp and broken up 1939. Overheard conversation at the AHC easter 07
8 SBD at Seagrove. This was from a party in the early 60's where a guy was saying that he had sat in a SBD cockpit "a couple of weekends ago" me and another Motat/AHSNZ member did a search at Seagrove (yes it was raining that day, it's Auckland after all)
9. Prewar aircraft at Murchison in a BBS. Story from the late 60s
10 Engines dumped in the river by Ohakea postwar, possibly to stop erosion.
11. The SBD story I related in "Aircraft in a Barn"
I think all these can be consigned to the round filing cabinet but it would be nice to finalise some of them properly. # 10 may be true but they would be knackered or washed away by now.
I purposely haven't mentioned the West Coast Corsair as that is so well known and there are so many theories as to where it might be.Also the North Head rumour is not mentioned as it has been well covered elsewhere.
Feel free to add your rumours, you never know' we may be able to put some of them to bed
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Post by nzompilot on Jun 15, 2008 17:53:36 GMT 12
Some of these might be truer than others There are very definately bits of old aircraft in the Woodnourne/Fairhall area, and quite a bit is probably buried. As noted on other threads on this site a lot of Aircraft went to Woodbourne for storage and scrapping. The below image shows two circled areas.  The largre area inside the Woodbourne boundry is where the bulk of the destruction occured - including some aircraft being blown up in Army bomb disposal trials. There is plenty of pieces of aircraft burried in this areas although I'm not too sure how accurate the reports of engines in packing crates is. The second highlighted area is where the remains of former Safe Air Argosy ZK-SAF is - enlarged below  This is being used as a storage/hen shed and the sheds next to it used to be filled with aircraft parts, but now may have been cleaned out to cater for the ever growing vineyard on the site. Some other ex RNZAF members may be able to shed more light on what exactly is burried at Woodbourne, but there were definately many aircraft dumped and broken up on the site. There has also been talk in the past of the enviromental impact from some of the stuff burried here ... I remember the Marlborough District Council being very corcerned at one stage in the last 90s about it. Not sure if this helps answer you're questions at all - but hopefully someone else can pin point some of the stuff burried there. |
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Post by shorty on Jun 15, 2008 18:31:31 GMT 12
The larger circled area was covered with freighters in my time, ex Pakistan Air Force, Mandated Ansett airlines from PNG and further round the perimeter track were some scrapped/burnt Vampire fuselages (incl camo ones)The farm at the eight o'clock position is/was John Walshes farm where the Oxfords were stored after their sale.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jun 15, 2008 18:41:32 GMT 12
I love the prospects of rumours like these. Great stuff. They have to be followed up. Luckily Bill Billings followed up on such a rumour and it resulted in the Subritzky family gaining a near mint Oxford. 5.Engines (in packing cases of course!) and aircraft components buried at Woodbourne/Fairhall As Craig says there is every possibility. I recall a report on TVNZ around 1987 that a search was being done at Taieri for brand new Tiger Moths and Gypsy engines that were buried there at the end of the war. I never found out if much was found. The news report showed a few rusty bits they'd dug up. Hmm, this sounds like someone has been watching The Race For The Yankee Zephyr after too many gins ;D This is almost true. This is because the RNZAF trained its new entrant Fitters and Riggers there at Trentham from at least 1936 onwards, maybe before than. But I have interviewed Dermot Hurley who joined up in 1936 and he told me they had their training there because Wigram's barracks that were being built for the expanding RNZAF were not yet ready. He said they had a Cheetah, a Grebe engine and a couple of wings that the trainees worked on. Perhaps the RNZAF took a complete aircraft up there later for later courses, though I got the impression that the barracks were completed while they were at Trentham and future training was then done at Wigram. Seagrove was a dispersed airfield and its hangars were set back into hillsides I believe. Are they still there? Maybe they're full of Dauntless divebombers? Do you have any theories on the Corsair in the Mangroves south of Auckland? |
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Post by shorty on Jun 15, 2008 19:01:37 GMT 12
The aircraft type mentioned for trentham was much older. I personally don't believe the story, it was so unusual that whispers would have surfaced years ago but I thought I'd toss it in to see if anyone comes up with anything remotly like it.
Like I said I only overheard it last year
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jun 15, 2008 19:42:43 GMT 12
The thing is though Shorty is the RNZAf was still using the likes of Bristol Fighters and Avro 504K's as instructional airframes up till the late 1930's. In fact they were still flying Bristols almost up till then. Are either of these the WWI type you heard mentioned? It's quite possible the RNZAF trucked one up from Wigram for those Trentham courses.
There are now very few prewar airmen left, and I heard that Derm passed away recently too, sadly.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jun 15, 2008 19:50:33 GMT 12
Although to follow up on my last comment, Derm is still in the phone book so maybe what I heard was wrong.
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Post by hairy on Jun 15, 2008 21:29:59 GMT 12
At Seagrove you can still see where they buried stuff, the pits were dug in the taxyways. Unfortunately because of the low lying nature of the airfield the contents of the pits are well below the water table with inevitable results, this info came from someone who had made digs at the aforementioned sites.  |
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Post by shorty on Jun 15, 2008 21:33:20 GMT 12
hairy, any idea as to what sort of stuff was buried, even though it would be knackered was anything dug up?
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Post by hairy on Jun 15, 2008 21:53:17 GMT 12
Shorty, check your PMs (private messages). |
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Post by skyhawkdon on Jun 16, 2008 7:48:26 GMT 12
At the back of the hangars at Queenstown airport a number of old engines and aircraft remains, plus a complete truck were reportedly buried in the 1950s. My Dad knows exactly where the spot is. It is now a vacant lot and there are deep depressions in the ground which he says are where the ground has compacted over time. Mitre 10 or something similar has bought the land, so when they start digging for their building they are in for a surprise!
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Post by shorty on Jun 16, 2008 8:48:08 GMT 12
That sounds like some old Anson stuff that I heard was buried there ex NZ 410/ZK-BCL. I heard that when I first started working for Mt Cook Airlines in 85
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Post by Naki on Jun 16, 2008 9:03:57 GMT 12
My family was at the receiving end of a aircraft in barn rumour. Some guy came around to our house/farm in Toko (7 miles east of Stratford) one day believing that we had a Tiger Moth stored in a hay barn! If only!
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Post by shorty on Jun 16, 2008 13:13:39 GMT 12
Of course one of the problems with rumours are that,IMHO, they are the product of someones wishful thinking and that instead of being " a hope", they end up as "a strong possibility" in the originators mind. I've also come across people that deliberately start a false rumour to steer people away from something they are chasing. I think #6 and #7 in my list might fall into the "hope" category.
Speaking of hope I wonder how long before the Stuka that Lester Hope made for classic fighters 05 becomes the butt of rumours?
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jun 16, 2008 13:40:50 GMT 12
So do you know what type of aircraft was discussed in rumour #7? I mean the NZPAF and RNZAF had numerous WWI types. Even the Fairey IIIF would fall into that category and they were in service till the war.
Or are we taking somethng more fanciful like a Fokker Triplane or Gotha here?
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Post by nzompilot on Jun 16, 2008 13:42:15 GMT 12
Further to #5
Have just spoken to a freind who is a local historian. The rumours of things being burried at Woodbourne are ture. There are very definately things burried at Woodbourne. Its just what is actually burried that is wrong.
During the war years there were around 30 fatal crashes at Woodbourne and all the aircraft involved were dumped on the far side of the airfield. The area they were dumped. as seen above, was covered in slip trenches. It also served as a bit of a rubbish dump. There are thousands of bits of broken crockery and broken radio parts etc dumped in this area. Most of it was then covered over with dirt and after the war the slip tranches were filled in.
He believes like most things someone sees something from a distance and then things grow from there - like the rumour of 10 Indian Motorcyles burried at the Delta, which grew to become 100 Indian Motorcycles burried at the Delta.
He said that Max Healy once tried to get permission to use a digger to excavate the site because he believe he could get enough parts to rebuild a Vincent. Unfortunately the C/O at the time wasn't too keen on the idea and nothing has happened since, especially after Max passed away.
He believes there is definately aircraft parts burried there, but unless the Defence Force suddenly likes the idea of people digging up defence force property no one will ever truely know what is there.
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Post by Bruce on Jun 16, 2008 13:47:36 GMT 12
Large quanities of Catalina compoents were supposed to be in existence in orchards near Pirongia (SW of Te Awamutu) however this has never been established - there arent many orchards in that area anyway and I think someones rumour got twisted!
In the 1990s a complete Liberator wing was dug up from a farm in that area according to a mate of mine who saw it. Supposedly the wing off one of the Libs that crashed at Whenuapai, railed down to the Waikato to keep a low profile. I have never heard any more about it, where it went to etc, which is surprising....
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Post by shorty on Jun 16, 2008 13:52:16 GMT 12
When I was at Woodbourne I was attached to TTS to help with some Museum stuff and Sandy Curry had some people have a look over the far side with a metal detector and bit of a preliminary dig but nothing was either proved or disproved.
What about stuff on Base side?
Dave, I didn't mention the type at Trentham as I don't want to cloud peoples thoughts before seeing if anything else came up.
I personally don't believe the rumour and will "spill the beans" on the type mentioned in a few days but it wasn't a NZ type.
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Post by shorty on Jun 16, 2008 14:24:12 GMT 12
Another one I forgot from the list:
Japanese seaplane (Glen) in the Marlborough Sounds. Although one operated there I don't believe the rest of the story considering the Sydney overflights.
I would also add your Spitfire camera mount story to this collection. I spent 2 years at Te Rapa in the tech section, had free access to all sites and with my interest you can bet I went through them all! The only item I found that didn't apply to in service aircraft was an Auster tail wheel hub.
I also painted the TBF while I was there back into it black/yellow scheme. Can tell you lots of stories about my time there but this is a family forum!
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jun 16, 2008 16:26:39 GMT 12
The Spitfire camera mounts story came to me from the baggie who was working on the final stocktake of the stock there. His name was Jones, I can't recall his first name, but he is the brother of Sgt Wayne Jones who is/was on 40 Sqn or 5 Sqn. His father was also a Sqn Ldr then. I had no reason to disbelieve him.
I have been told by a driver of a Japanese floatplane that washed ashore at Waipapakauri and he had to pick it up on a Queen Mary and truck it down to Parnell where it disappeared into an RNZAF warehouse under much secrecy and guard. I tried to find more, and so did David Duxbury on my behalf, but no record exists of this. But it was so secret, perhaps no record was made. If it did happen, it probably was shipped to the USA for assessment.
As you say the Trentham WWI plane was something not used by NZ, that makes more sense for your disbelief. Of course perhaps it was a NZ type and the originator of the rumour didn't know. Maybe aircraft finishers were trained there too and they painted black crosses on it, or whatever...
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